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515 lines
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<title>An Interview with Ron Thornton</title>
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<h2>An Interview with Ron Thornton</h2>
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by Eric Reinholt
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<<a href="mailto:eric.reinholt@gmail.com">eric.reinholt@gmail.com</a>>.
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Originally published in <strong>Babylon 5 - Online!</strong>. Reprinted
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in the Lurker's Guide by permission of the author.
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<p>
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Week after week, Visual Effects Artist Ron Thornton and his staff at
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Foundation Imaging create the eye popping, Emmy Award winning, CGI
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(Computer Generated Images) special effects for J. Michael Straczynski's
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television universe of Babylon 5.
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<p>
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Dissatisfied with working in an airport in England, Ron and a friend went
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to see the movie "Alien" where it occurred to him that someone got paid for
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making all those models out of plastic.
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<p>
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Thornton then left his airport job, took most of his remaining money and
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purchased plastics and other materials and began building and photographing
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models. He took the photographs and used them to get a job with BBC
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television.
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<p>
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Ron has since worked on the Peter Davidson Doctor Who series, then designed
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and built spaceships for final season of Blake's 7 (Ron built the Scorpio
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in his living room, in actuality he built about seven different versions of
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the Scorpio; different sized models, partial models etc.) and Tripods, all
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British television series. Thornton then moved to Los Angles where he
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worked on props and miniatures for Real Genius, Class of 1999, Robot-Jox,
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T2 (in which he created the battle rifles), The Addams Family, Highlander
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2, Critters and Spaceballs. Prior to working on Babylon 5, Thornton worked
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on Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future television show where he
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first saw computer generated images for television special effects.
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<p>
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Television and computer screens are arrays of small dots or "pixels." Each
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pixel is assigned a color, contrast and intensity and when thousands of
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these pixels are combined, an image results. Computer paint programs allow
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artists to arrange pixels to form pictures. 3-D image programs allow
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artists to manipulate those pixels to simulate images of objects as if they
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actually existed in three dimensional space.
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<p>
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The pilot <a href="/lurk/guide/000.html">"The Gathering"</a>
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was rendered by eight interconnected Amiga 2000
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computers with Video Toaster boards which were connected to an IBM computer
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that stored the images in five gigabytes of memory. Foundation Imaging's
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computational power has increased tremendously with each work station now
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being equivalent to the original eight Amigas and Ron's being the
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equivalent to sixteen Amigas.
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<p>
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The computer generated effects industry is still in its infancy and with
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only one exception, all the effects for Babylon 5 have been created by
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Thornton and his team. The one exception was Jason Ironheart's god-like
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torso effect at the end of <a href="/lurk/guide/006.html">"Mind War"</a>
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from Babylon 5's first season.
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<p>
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<blockquote>
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<i>Eric:</i> "Fans from the first season of Babylon 5 (like myself) have
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wanted to know if LightWave has a pre-packaged torso in it,
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because of the Jason Ironheart god-like creature in "Mind War."
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<p>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "No, That is an off-the-shelf-bought database that we
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modified."
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<p>
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<i>Eric:</i> "Have you had anything else that you've been able to use
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right off the shelf?"
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<p>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "I wish! Nobody's really got anything, we've got to build the
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stuff from scratch. This show's got a look and it's got to stay
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in line with that look."
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</blockquote>
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<p>
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Models are created in Lightwave's 3-D modeling program in an elaborate
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connect-the-dots fashion that places the dots in three dimensional space.
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The dots are used as references for surfaces (polygons) which form the
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actual exterior of the computer models.
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<p>
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To help create and improve that look, Thornton and his team have built
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physical models which were photographed and scanned into their computers.
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<p>
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<blockquote>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "We've built models and scanned them. Basically it's just a
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flat object, it's just a flat piece of plastic that we've scored
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and painted and panel lined."
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<p>
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"You can get more organic patterns. Anybody who paints with
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paint will tell you that it's totally different to paint on a
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computer. There are certain things that paint does; like for
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instance you can get very, very thin paint, brush it over
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something and then wipe it off and it will go into the grooves,
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there's no way you can synthesize that on the computer, that
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sort of 'capillary bleed' effect that only happens with thin
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washes of paint. And so you can get some really gorgeous
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organic textures which you can't get any other way and there's
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been a couple of times we've done it.
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</blockquote>
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<p>
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According to Thornton, this is done just for that special organic effect
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which is then "bit mapped" onto the surface of the electronically
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constructed ship.
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<p>
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Jason Ironheart's ship (<a href="/lurk/guide/006.html">Mind War</a>)
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was the first ship Ron built via computer
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(and was also seen in the pilot <a href="/lurk/guide/000.html">"The Gathering"</a>)
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in tribute to some of his
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"teachers" and is reminiscent of the Zep One from the British television
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show Captain Zep.
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<a href="/lurk/ftp/Pictures/Effects/approach3.jpg"><img
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align=right width=85 height=64 hspace=4
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href="/lurk/ftp/Pictures/Effects/Thumb/approach3.gif"></a>
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<p>
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Ron designed Babylon 5 (including the Cobra Bays) mostly by himself and
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"built it" in two weeks on the computer where a conventional model may have
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required six weeks or more and a larger team!
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<p>
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Some of the ships that are seen on the Babylon 5 series have actual
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physical counterparts. The blocky transport ships were among the models
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that Thornton created and photographed to land a job in Special Effects.
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<p>
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Steve Berg and Ron split the designing of the ships of Babylon 5 about
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50/50.
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<p>
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<blockquote>
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<i>Eric:</i> "Ron, how did you get the idea of using computers for creating
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Special Effects?"
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<p>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "It just sort of happened. I ended up getting one of these
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machines, the Video Toaster, and I started playing with it and it
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was like 'give it a year or so and this could work.'
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<p>
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"This was way after Captain Power. Captain Power had turned me
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off it (Computer Generated Special Effects), 'cause the stuff
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didn't look very good and there was no texture mapping per se.
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It was all very blocky looking, the animation wasn't that hot
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and they had real problems delivering the stuff; it was just
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taking them forever to do it."
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<p>
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"I had an Amiga for a while and it had a number of 3D packages
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which I sort of toyed with, but the Toaster was the first decent
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one."
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<p>
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<i>Eric:</i> "How long did it take from realizing that the Toaster could be
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used for effects work until Foundation Imaging was up and
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running?"
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<p>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "It was probably about a year and a half, during which
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time I was
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working with Todd Rundgren in Northern California on one of his
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shows.
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<p>
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"But a lot of it was the wait. Once I convinced Joe
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[Straczynski] and John Copeland that this could be done this way
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it suddenly opened up a whole new venue and I did a bunch of
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tests; then we went in and pitched it once more to Peter
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[Ledger]. At least this time they could see that we could do
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it, that we could create some of this imagery."
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<p>
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<i>Eric:</i> "What is the cost of producing special effects with
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computers as
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opposed to those done with conventional means?"
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<p>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "I'd say that we're between a third and two thirds the cost."
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<p>
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<i>Eric:</i> "What are the basic steps in creating a CGI scene?"
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<p>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "Well, you build your model. You pull it into the
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layout. You
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light it. You shoot it. It's very similar to having a motion
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control stage except you've got no limitations."
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</blockquote>
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<p>
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The Starfury design is unique in science fiction and Thornton says that it
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is in no way based on that of the Star Wars X-Wing Fighters and are more of
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a tribute to Ron Cobbs' designs in "The Last Starfighter."
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<p>
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The Starfury is able to move more realistically in flight, can move in
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one vector, spin on it's axis to track and fight other ships and not engage
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in "Battle of Britain" style dog fights (that are favored in other films).
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<p>
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<blockquote>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "If you actually think about it, the Starfury is a totally
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impossible model to motion control. Unless you did it on wires,
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because of the way the engine deflector plates are at the back,
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you couldn't put a mounting rod up the middle of it because the
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mounting rod would eclipse the plates that were rolling behind
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it. The only way you could mount it is from the front. It's
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just one of those 'impossible models.'"
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</blockquote>
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<p>
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Foundation Imaging started out with five people and has grown to fifteen
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for the Babylon 5 series. Thornton, along with his partner Paul
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Beigle-Bryant (who created the software network that enables rendering and
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who also performs computer hardware repairs), senior animators, Mojo (from
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New York) and John Teska supervise other computer animators. Computer
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animator Mark Swain, Effects Coordinator Shannon Casey and Cherry Hitch
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(who does 2-D rotoscope work on the virtual sets and overlays such
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effects as laser fire) are the core of talented people who make the
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computer generated effects of Babylon 5 a reality.
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<p>
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Effects are designed on an accelerated Amiga 2000 with a Video Toaster
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board in it, using LightWave 3-D and Modeler 3-D.
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<p>
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<blockquote>
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<i>Eric:</i> "How is building computer models different from building
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physical models?"
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<p>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "You still have to build the models, only you use polygons and
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pixels instead of plastic and paintbrushes."
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</blockquote>
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<p>
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Another unique organic look to Babylon 5 is the shape of the Vorlon vessels
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such as Ambassador Kosh's ship. The inspiration for the squid-like vessel
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is as original as it is surprising:
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<p>
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<blockquote>
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<img align=right width=160 height=120 src="/lurk/gif/000/docking.gif">
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<i>Eric:</i> "One of the really unique looking vessels right from the start
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was the Vorlon Cruiser. It's rather squid-like in look. Was
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that the inspiration for the ship?"
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<p>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "It's a clove of garlic, actually. I got the idea driving
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through the town of Gilroy which is kind of like the garlic
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capital of the world and has this absolutely delicious smell."
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</blockquote>
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<p>
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The clove of garlic grew into an organic ship which Thornton used to sell
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the idea of Organic Technology to Straczynski to be used by some of the
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alien races.
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<p>
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<blockquote>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "If you have space traveling ability and genetic manipulation,
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why can't you grow a ship suited to the environment of space? I
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had this idea of walking into a spaceship like stepping into the
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mouth of a whale and going for a ride."
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<p>
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<i>Eric:</i> "The Vorlon ship exterior is sort of mottled and is fractal
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generated. I know about that and Kosh's environment suit has a
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similar look. Was that intentional?"
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<p>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "They sort of evolved together."
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</blockquote>
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<p>
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Using computers for special effects also allows for some rather intricate
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and spectacular effects which might be impossible to create realistically
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using conventional means, such as the Starfury launches. J. Michael
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Straczynski had envisioned ships on platforms that would flip the ships
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over and out into space or to launch ships from the front of the rotating
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station but Thornton had other suggestions, including pointing out that the
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only way to launch ships from the front of the station would be through the
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central spinning bay because of the rotation of the station. As for the
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Starfury platform launch:
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<p>
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<blockquote>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "The easiest way to launch the ship and save energy is to
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literally just drop the ship out, you've dropped it out . . .
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it's already got momentum . . . and depending on where in the
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rotational cycle you drop the ship it decides what sort of
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direction it's going to go away from the station"
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<p>
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<i>Eric:</i> "You just have to be careful not to hit the non-rotating arm!"
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<p>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "Uh, yeah! [laughs] I think that would be kind of like
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one of
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those World War One cannons that fired through the propellers.
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The whole thing [launch cycle] would be disabled when that
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[non-rotating arm] came around."
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<p>
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<i>Eric:</i> "What was your most technically complex shot so far? I
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remember a shot from <a href="/lurk/guide/000.html">"The Gathering"</a>
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of two hundred Vorlon
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vessels exiting Babylon 5's Jump Gate (which beat the record
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number of On Screen ships in "The Return of the Jedi")."
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<p>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "That was actually a piece of cake. It's just making up
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a bunch
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of them and layering them and layering them. It's just one of
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those things that's really easy to do on the computer but is
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really incredibly difficult to do anywhere else.
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<p>
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"I think actually, in terms of tweaking . . . I think one of
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(the technically) hardest shots that's paid off very well was
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John Teska'a shot of these little demons all clustered over
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Londo's back [<a href="/lurk/guide/025.html">The Geometry of Shadows</a>]
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which was very
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interesting because we had to motion-match the demons and move
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them along with Londo. And we had to do it manually; there was
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no automatic tracking like there is in some of the more
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expensive packages so it was all done manually, by eye and it
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was very, very tasty. I was extremely pleased with that.
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<p>
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"Unfortunately it's a shame because John Flinn [Director of
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Photography John C. Flinn, III A.S.C.] lit the scene really dark
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and so you can't really see what's going on. They [the demons]
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were scrapping on his back and were hitting one another, it was
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kind of like having the Three Stooges strapped to his back and
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was incredibly funny!"
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</blockquote>
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<p>
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One major similarity between computer generating effects and that of
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conventional motion control effects for an ongoing series is a lack of
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production time. The time between being handed a completed script and
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generating the thirty or so effect shots needed for a complete episode is
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only a matter of weeks. Each computer generated frame for
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<a href="/lurk/guide/000.html">"The Gathering"</a>
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took almost one hour to render but that time has been substantially reduced
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to approximately twenty minutes. Considering that there are about
|
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thirty frames generated per second, time is one of Foundation Imaging's
|
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most important factors.
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<p>
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<blockquote>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "There's an icon that you click [at each of the computer
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stations] before you leave your station and automatically that
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station becomes a slave and starts rendering images. By the
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time we leave at night, the whole system is rendering. We try
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not to waste a single minute!"
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</blockquote>
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<p>
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<a href="/lurk/ftp/Pictures/Effects/line1.jpg"><img
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align=right width=85 height=64 hspace=4
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href="/lurk/ftp/Pictures/Effects/Thumb/line1.gif"></a>
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Much like enthusiastic Babylon 5 fans, Thornton wishes that he could know
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what will happen later down the closely guarded Straczynski story line but
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for reasons differing from fans. This would enable Thornton to plan more
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exciting visuals. Thornton believes that such incredible scenes such as
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the <A HREF="/lurk/guide/008.line.page.html">battle of "The Line"</A>
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[<a href="/lurk/guide/008.html">"And the Sky Full of Stars"</a>] could have been made
|
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even better with more time for planning.
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<p>
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<blockquote>
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<i>Eric:</i> "What shots from the series do you think could have been
|
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better,
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if you'd had more time?"
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<p>
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<i>Thornton:</i> "Oh, the battle of "The Line" is one I wish we'd had more time
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to prepare for. It was supposed to be really emotive but it
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wound up kind of ordinary."
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<p>
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"I'll tell you what I'd really like to do. I'd like to do a
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really decent scene with the Minbari Cruisers. I think the
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Minbari Cruisers are really cool looking and I'd really like to
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do a decent battle scene with them."
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</blockquote>
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<p>
|
|
With Foundation Imaging's increased ability to create dynamic images in a
|
|
short period of time, there are approximately thirty ship effects scenes in
|
|
each episode but instead of visualizing more and more such shots in later
|
|
episodes as computational speed increases, Thornton has asked that number
|
|
of shots to remain a constant, giving him the ability to concentrate on
|
|
quality instead of quantity.
|
|
<p>
|
|
However Foundation Imaging does more than just space ship scenes and these
|
|
special effects sometimes are mixed with the live action plates shot for
|
|
the series. This requires a supervisor on set to aid the director with the
|
|
special needs for shooting background plates (for Virtual sets and "Blue
|
|
Screen" shots) which are later given to Foundation Imaging.
|
|
<p>
|
|
<blockquote>
|
|
<i>Eric:</i> "What's required for Virtual sets? Do you have to help
|
|
directors with what's needed for Blue Screens and so on?"
|
|
<p>
|
|
<i>Thornton:</i> "Virtual sets are basically matte paintings; there's a
|
|
supervisor that's on set who basically watches over all the 'On
|
|
Set' stuff and that's Ted Rae this year. Virtual sets are a
|
|
technique that's been around, as I said, for a long time."
|
|
</blockquote>
|
|
<p>
|
|
Back at Foundation Imaging, Cherry Hitch is then responsible for 2-D
|
|
rotoscoping, virtual sets and overlays such as laser fire and so on. She
|
|
must take the background plates and introduce the computer generated
|
|
effects onto them.
|
|
<p>
|
|
"Blue Screen" shots are live action plates that have a specific area which
|
|
is color-coded that is capable of being digitally "removed" so that special
|
|
effects can be "placed" into the shot.
|
|
<p>
|
|
Virtual sets are sets which do not exist in the real world. Actors perform
|
|
(again) before a color-coded area, then later an entire set is painted in
|
|
Foundation Imaging's computers and inserted around the actors. Examples of
|
|
this sort of imaging include the Narn War Cruiser bridge set and the
|
|
Babylon 5 Observation Deck where the Centauri Emperor met with Captain
|
|
Sheridan (<a href="/lurk/guide/031.html">The Coming of Shadows</a>).
|
|
<p>
|
|
Another, similar effect is Matte Painting which also can be done on
|
|
Foundation Imaging's computers. The bi-level Zocalo visualized in the
|
|
opening title sequence of each of Season Two's episodes are examples where
|
|
one plate of the Zocalo was shot, then a second plate with actors walking
|
|
along specifically defined areas was computer inserted over the first.
|
|
<p>
|
|
<blockquote>
|
|
<i>Eric:</i> "I know you're busy right now creating effects for the third
|
|
season of Babylon 5, but has Foundation Imaging produced effects
|
|
for other shows or movies as well?"
|
|
<p>
|
|
<i>Thornton:</i> "Oh yeah. Right now we're working on a show of mine called
|
|
"Hypernauts" a sort of kid's show."
|
|
<p>
|
|
"We did a show last year called 'Journey to Mars' which is . . .
|
|
not great. And I don't know if they're ever going to show it on
|
|
TV, it's that 'not great.' When you're asked to do rubbish, you
|
|
have to do it. I mean the shots were good but they were very,
|
|
very long, I mean we had shots flying over the Mars landscape
|
|
that were like a minute and a half long so it's like 'go to
|
|
sleep, go out and get yourself a cup of coffee and a sandwich'
|
|
and come back and the shot's still running.
|
|
<p>
|
|
"There was this kind of strange director that they had that was
|
|
coming up with all this stuff."
|
|
</blockquote>
|
|
<p>
|
|
But with the talents of Ron Thornton and his team at Foundation Imaging,
|
|
imaginative producer J. Michael Straczynski and the gifted directors of
|
|
Babylon 5, computers are sure to keep producing attention-riveting special
|
|
effects.
|
|
|
|
<pre>
|
|
|
|
</pre>
|
|
|
|
<p nowrap>
|
|
<nobr><a href="/lurk/lurker.html"><img
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<h5>
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Last update:
|
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October 16, 1995
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</h5>
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</body>
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</html>
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