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lurkers-guide


								<!-- TITLE No Surrender, No Retreat -->


								<h2><a name="OV">Overview</a></h2>


								<blockquote><cite>

								Sheridan's forces attempt to liberate Proxima 3. Londo tries to enlist G'Kar's

								aid in backing Sheridan against Earth.

								</cite>


								<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?Mitzman+Gaven%2C+Marcia">Marcia Mitzman Gaven</a> as Commander Levitt.

								<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Gant,+Richard">Richard Gant</a> as Captain MacDougan.

								<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Jenkins,+Ken">Ken Jenkins</a> as Captain Hall.

								</blockquote>


								<pre><a href="/lurk/p5/intro.html">P5 Rating</a>: <a href="/lurk/p5/081">9.16</a>


								Production number: 415

								Original air week: May 26, 1997

								<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000DGBEY/thelurkersguidet">DVD release date</a>: January 6, 2004


								Written by J. Michael Straczynski

								Directed by Mike Vejar

								</pre>


								<p>

								<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000636H/thelurkersguidet">An

								episodic soundtrack is available.</a>


								<p>

								<hr size=3>


								<h2><a name="BP">Plot Points</a></h2>

								<ul>


								   <li>@@@864600713 Sheridan's forces have liberated Proxima 3.  In the

									process, several additional Earth Alliance cruisers defected to his

									side.  Some are remaining to guard Proxima 3 against retaliation

									by President Clark.


								   <li>@@@864600713 During the Earth-Minbari War, G'Kar personally supervised

									the sale of Narn weapons to Earth.


								   <li>@@@864600713 Londo and G'Kar have agreed to throw the support of their

									respective governments behind Sheridan.  The nonaligned worlds have

									apparently dissolved their mutual defense pacts with Earth and are

									staying out of the conflict, aside from loaning ships to help defend

									Babylon 5 itself.


								   <li>@@@864605370 Garibaldi has left the station for Mars, and never intends

									to return.  He plans to try to help free Earth, but not in concert

									with Sheridan, whose methods Garibaldi opposes.


								</ul>


								<h2><a name="UQ">Unanswered Questions</a></h2>

								<ul>


								   <li>@@@864667703 What exactly will come of the declaration of support by

									Centauri Prime and Narn?  Will they provide military support to

									Sheridan?  Did he know the declaration was coming?


								   <li>@@@865125941 Does Londo's declaration mean that he has voided the

									nonagression treaty between Centauri Prime and Earth

									(<a href="044.html">"The Fall of Night?"</a>)

									Does the implantation of a Keeper on at least one Centauri official

									(<a href="073.html">"Epiphanies"</a>)

									spell trouble for Centauri support of Sheridan's cause?


								   <li>@@@865180478 What was Vir writing when he fell asleep?


								   <li>@@@866393918 What business did Garibaldi have in Centauri space?


								   <li>@@@864605370 What does Garibaldi plan to do to fight for Earth?


								   <li>@@@864605370 How does Sheridan hope to use the frozen telepaths?


								</ul>


								<h2><a name="AN">Analysis</a></h2>

								<ul>


								   <li>@@@864667703 Sheridan told Commander Levitt the League wasn't getting

									involved because he wanted this to be a clean fight, presumably

									meaning no alien involvement.  But in fact, aliens are already

									involved; the crew of the White Star fleet is largely Minbari,

									and the ships themselves are a Minbari/Vorlon concoction.


									<p>

									Earth forces being attacked by Minbari-made vessels with Minbari

									crews would seem perfect propaganda fodder for Clark, further

									"evidence" that Sheridan has gone over to the Minbari side as

									suggested in

									<a href="074.html">"The Illusion of Truth."</a>


									<p>

									Of course, it could be argued that many Minbari are part human anyway

									(<a href="075.html">"Atonement"</a>)

									and thus aren't completely out of place in a human civil war,

									but that argument would likely do little to dampen the effect of

									Clark's propaganda, should he choose to concoct any.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865017413 Patriotism and its effects played a key thematic role in

									this episode.  Sheridan's patriotism (as described when he spoke to

									the other captains about the ideals of the Alliance) drove him to

									attack his own people.  Garibaldi's patriotism, if his conversation

									with Vir is to be believed, is strong as well, but Sheridan's

									methods are abhorrent to him.  Londo's patriotism led him to forsake

									his friends, and now he finds himself alone.  G'Kar's patriotism

									lost him his eye.


									<p>

									Perhaps even Clark believes he's acting in Earth's best interest,

									though that puts him on a collision course with Sheridan.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865184651 Did Garibaldi tell Edgars about Sheridan's imminent

									campaign?  If so, Edgars doesn't appear to have relayed the information

									to Earth Force, since the commanders at Proxima 3 were unaware Sheridan

									was on the move.  On the other hand, Garibaldi didn't know the

									particulars of the first phase of the campaign.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865180152 Garibaldi apparently

									didn't visit G'Kar to say goodbye (or at least, no such visit was

									shown.)  Why not, especially given what G'Kar went through while

									searching for him?


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865180478 G'Kar is apparently still working on the book he started

									while in prison

									(<a href="052.html">"Messages from Earth."</a>)


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865798185 When Londo asked about G'Kar's eye, G'Kar responded,

									"It sees."  His eye is therefore probably not, at present, the "eye

									that does not see" from Lady Morella's prophecy

									(<a href="053.html">"Point of No Return."</a>)

									Was his natural eye in fact the one referred to by the prophecy?

									Since it needs to be recharged nightly to continue seeing

									(<a href="075.html">"Atonement"</a>)

									and since it's not in evidence 17 years in the future, when G'Kar

									and Londo kill each other

									(<a href="061.html">"War Without End, Part Two"</a>)

									the artificial eye may yet turn out to be the one Morella was referring

									to.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865180478 Londo offered a toast to the humans, who he regards as

									a bridge between the Centauri and Narn.  This echoes Delenn's statements

									(<a href="037.html">"And Now For a Word,"</a>

									<a href="077.html">"Lines of Communication"</a>)

									that humanity's greatest strength is the ability to form communities

									of diverse people.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865016822 The drink Londo referred to while talking to G'Kar was in

									<a href="031.html">"The Coming of Shadows,"</a>

									bought by G'Kar after he learned the Centauri Emperor had come to

									make peace with the Narn.


									<p>

									Shortly thereafter, Londo did have some inkling that he was losing

									his friends thanks to his activities; he offered Garibaldi a drink in

									<a href="034.html">"Acts of Sacrifice,"</a>

									acknowledging that the two were still "friends, if only for a little

									while."


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865533963 Londo's rationale for the joint declaration was nearly

									identical to Sheridan's argument for allowing the White Star fleet

									to patrol Narn and Centauri space

									(<a href="078.html">"Conflicts of Interest."</a>)

									However, since Sheridan apparently decided not to publicize the

									fact that both the Narn and Centauri had agreed to the patrols

									(assuming the Narn agreed -- it's only been explicitly stated that

									the Centauri did) this joint declaration is the first official

									act of unity that's been shown.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865180152 Vir's nightmare presumably related to the assassination

									of Cartagia

									(<a href="071.html">"The Long Night."</a>)

									It's odd that he cried out, "I didn't do it," when in fact he did

									kill Cartagia, perhaps an indication that part of him still doesn't

									believe what he did.


									<p>

									On the other hand, it's possible he was dreaming of something else,

									perhaps one of the precognitive dreams Centauri have.  In that case,

									one candidate that'd fit his exclamation would be his discovery of

									the dead bodies of Londo and G'Kar

									(<a href="061.html">"War Without End, Part Two."</a>)


									<p>

									One other Centauri has been shown awakening from a nightmare recently:

									the Regent in

									<a href="073.html">"Epiphanies,"</a>

									who awoke to discover he had a Keeper attached to his neck.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@864920269 Earth appears to have improved its scanning technology;

									White Star ships were hit more than once during the battle.  Previously,

									Earth weapon systems haven't been able to lock onto Minbari ships (e.g.

									<a href="023.html">"Points of Departure."</a>)

									Presumably the White Stars, which incorporate much more advanced

									Vorlon technology as well, are even harder to get a fix on.  Perhaps

									the Shadows supplied Earth with some technical tips.


									<p>

									It's possible manual targeting was used (novel

									<a href="/lurk/novels/007.html">"The Shadow Within"</a>)

									and the Earth ships simply got in a few lucky shots, but that runs

									counter to Sheridan's message to the other captains that he wouldn't

									consider them hostile if their weapons didn't lock on.  That message

									wouldn't make sense if they weren't capable of locking on anyway.

									On the other hand, since Sheridan wanted to test the hostility of

									the Earth ships, he may have ordered the White Stars to turn off

									their countermeasures.  In

									<a href="023.html">"Points of Departure"</a>

									Minbari ships were able to make themselves trackable by the station's

									scanners as desired.


									<p>

									Either way, only one White Star was seen to have been destroyed,

									and then only because it smashed into a cruiser seconds after being

									hit.  Possibly the White Stars are advanced enough that a momentary

									loss of control is the only real impact from a single hit by Earth

									weapons.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865277191 While Marcus was gathering information on the hostility of

									the Earth cruisers, his contact on Proxima 3 was under attack by ground

									forces.  What happened to the ground forces after the space battle?

									Sheridan appeared to consider the planet liberated once the commander

									of the Heracles capitulated; did she have authority over all Earth

									forces in the region, or are there still holdouts on the surface?


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865277191 Sheridan promised to liberate Proxima, then take the battle

									to Mars and finally to Earth.  What about the colony on Orion 7, which

									seceded from the Earth Alliance at the same time Proxima 3 did?

									(<a href="054.html">"Severed Dreams"</a>)

									Perhaps it has already fallen, or maybe it's not under as much duress

									as Proxima was, so Sheridan felt the best way to liberate it was to

									take back Earth.  Or perhaps it's a small colony and Clark didn't

									deem it worth the effort to take back.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865016930 In

									<a href="060.html">"War Without End, Part One"</a>

									the White Star's Vorlon technology adapted its defenses to shrug off

									blasts from Shadow fighters after it was hit.  Will the surviving

									White Stars from the battle at Proxima 3 now be more resistant to

									Earth's weapons, and thus even more potent weapons?


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865708521 Commander Levitt knew that the League worlds had sided

									with Sheridan.  How did she know, if Babylon 5 is officially cut off

									from Earth?  The most likely answer is that she'd been watching the

									Voice of the Resistance broadcasts, which indicates that they are

									indeed reaching the colonies.


								</ul>


								<h2><a name="NO">Notes</a></h2>

								<ul>


								   <li>@@@864885020 The Alexander

									(<a href="054.html">"Severed Dreams"</a>)

									has survived and is apparently now patrolling Proxima 3 to guard

									against retaliation by Clark's forces.


								   <li>@@@865016309 The Vesta's logo (visible on the bridge) is a stylized

									flame in a brazier.  Vesta is the Roman goddess of the hearth.

									The Heracles' logo appears to incorporate arrows in the "H" at

									the bottom, probably a reference to Heracles' poison arrows from

									Greek mythology.


								   <li>@@@865277191 The ship that withdrew from the battle was the Juno.

									In Roman mythology, Juno was the goddess of light and birth.  In Greek

									mythology she was called Hera.


								   <li>@@@866783759 The names of two of the ships that surrendered had

									symbolic relation to Sheridan's campaign.  The Furies were goddesses

									who punished crimes against one's kin.  Nemesis was the goddess who

									punished hubris -- putting oneself above the gods.


								   <li>@@@865533511 The Pollux was named after Greek mythology as well.

									Castor and Pollux, the two main stars of the constellation Gemini,

									were brothers.  When Pollux was killed, Castor was so despondent that

									Zeus agreed to turn them both into stars so they could always be

									together.


								   <li>@@@865533369 Possible continuity glitch: Just before Garibaldi's

									arrival, Vir drops his pen while he's asleep.  When he stands up,

									he's holding the pen again.  Of course, he might have picked it

									up upon awakening.


								<img align=right width=159 height=127 alt="" src="/lurk/gif/081/pollux.jpg">

								<img align=right width=171 height=148 alt="" src="/lurk/gif/081/furies.jpg">

								   <li>@@@874859104 Effects glitch: The Earth Alliance logos on the Pollux

									and the Furies are backwards.  The "E" can be seen to point to the

									left rather than the right.<br clear=all>


								</ul>


								<h2><a name="JS">jms speaks</a></h2>

								<ul>


								   <li>@@@864752359 <em>Why don't we ever see Clark?</em><br>

									I wanted to keep Clark more a force than a person...and Vir

									has just been off doing his usual Vir stuff...he's back this coming

									week.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865362300 Proxima 3 is in the Proxima Centauri system, next door to

									Proxima 2, but no one goes there because the tourist season is way too

									short.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865269464 "It seems to me that the White Stars (particularly in

									the numbers I perceived in this Ep)  should have been able to deal with

									the Earth ships like lamb to a slaughter."


									<p>

									Yeah, if all you want is to slaughter fellow humans and

									officers; if you want to try to minimize the body count of your fellow

									officers, who you want to eventually side with you, it's more

									difficult, you have to keep the kid gloves on...which endangers you in

									the long run.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865446689 "were these White Stars tired or something? I would've

									expected that a couple of them could just go slice-slice, sever the

									rotating sections on the EA ships and have 'em for breakfast."


									<p>

									Sure, if all you're interested in is slaughtering the opposition...they

									were designed for "destroy"...when you have to pull your punches to

									avoid just going in and killing EVERYthing in sight...which will only

									work *against* you in the long run, it becomes more difficult.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865492857 <em>There were a lot of ethical decisions on all

									sides, something you don't usually see in military SF.  Were you

									in the military?</em><br>

									No, I wasn't in the military, just having missed the Vietnam

									draft. The points you mention are all the ones I wanted to get into

									with that episode, and the ones a lot of folks have overlooked in

									suggesting that it should have been an episode about slicing-and-dicing

									the enemy (the enemy in this case being our own species).  The show, at

									root, is about ethics, among other things, and the ethical choices will

									continue to get more difficult the deeper you go.  There is a very fine

									line that Sheridan's walking in all this.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865492857 It's certainly an issue I care about quite a lot, and the

									delicate balance between orders and conscience, between what you think

									you should be doing vs. what you feel you *must* do, is the heart of

									99% of all drama.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865578466 "G'Kar seems to know that it's Mollari at his door -- why

									else would he wait so long to call, "Enter?"  But how did he know --

									was it an official request by Londo?"


									<p>

									If you recall, when Garibaldi visited Vir, Vir mentioned that

									Londo was arranging a meeting with G'Kar, so it was definitely set up

									in advance.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865269464 The Londo/G'Kar stuff was nifty...and yes, he's

									struggling toward redemption as best he can, making a real effort, which

									is important, because if he's going to end up with a Keeper on him

									eventually, as we've seen, best to feel for him, which you can't if

									he's a bad guy.


									<p>

									Set 'em up, knock 'em down....


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865492857 If G'Kar came around too easily or quickly, it would

									ring false; it had to go through some time and reflection.  But even

									though one could certainly agree with his anger over what's happened,

									G'Kar has to try and overcome that and even transcend it.


								</ul>