lurkers-guide/guide/081

<!-- TITLE No Surrender, No Retreat -->

<h2><a name="OV">Overview</a></h2>

<blockquote><cite>
Sheridan's forces attempt to liberate Proxima 3. Londo tries to enlist G'Kar's
aid in backing Sheridan against Earth.
</cite>

<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?Mitzman+Gaven%2C+Marcia">Marcia Mitzman Gaven</a> as Commander Levitt.
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Gant,+Richard">Richard Gant</a> as Captain MacDougan.
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Jenkins,+Ken">Ken Jenkins</a> as Captain Hall.
</blockquote>

<pre><a href="/lurk/p5/intro.html">P5 Rating</a>: <a href="/lurk/p5/081">9.16</a>

Production number: 415
Original air week: May 26, 1997
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000DGBEY/thelurkersguidet">DVD release date</a>: January 6, 2004

Written by J. Michael Straczynski
Directed by Mike Vejar
</pre>

<p>
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000636H/thelurkersguidet">An 
episodic soundtrack is available.</a>

<p>
<hr size=3>

<h2><a name="BP">Plot Points</a></h2>
<ul>

   <li>@@@864600713 Sheridan's forces have liberated Proxima 3.  In the
	process, several additional Earth Alliance cruisers defected to his
	side.  Some are remaining to guard Proxima 3 against retaliation
	by President Clark.

   <li>@@@864600713 During the Earth-Minbari War, G'Kar personally supervised
	the sale of Narn weapons to Earth.

   <li>@@@864600713 Londo and G'Kar have agreed to throw the support of their
	respective governments behind Sheridan.  The nonaligned worlds have
	apparently dissolved their mutual defense pacts with Earth and are
	staying out of the conflict, aside from loaning ships to help defend
	Babylon 5 itself.

   <li>@@@864605370 Garibaldi has left the station for Mars, and never intends
	to return.  He plans to try to help free Earth, but not in concert
	with Sheridan, whose methods Garibaldi opposes.

</ul>

<h2><a name="UQ">Unanswered Questions</a></h2>
<ul>

   <li>@@@864667703 What exactly will come of the declaration of support by
	Centauri Prime and Narn?  Will they provide military support to
	Sheridan?  Did he know the declaration was coming?

   <li>@@@865125941 Does Londo's declaration mean that he has voided the
	nonagression treaty between Centauri Prime and Earth
	(<a href="044.html">"The Fall of Night?"</a>)
	Does the implantation of a Keeper on at least one Centauri official
	(<a href="073.html">"Epiphanies"</a>)
	spell trouble for Centauri support of Sheridan's cause?

   <li>@@@865180478 What was Vir writing when he fell asleep?

   <li>@@@866393918 What business did Garibaldi have in Centauri space?

   <li>@@@864605370 What does Garibaldi plan to do to fight for Earth?

   <li>@@@864605370 How does Sheridan hope to use the frozen telepaths?

</ul>

<h2><a name="AN">Analysis</a></h2>
<ul>

   <li>@@@864667703 Sheridan told Commander Levitt the League wasn't getting
	involved because he wanted this to be a clean fight, presumably
	meaning no alien involvement.  But in fact, aliens are already
	involved; the crew of the White Star fleet is largely Minbari,
	and the ships themselves are a Minbari/Vorlon concoction.

	<p>
	Earth forces being attacked by Minbari-made vessels with Minbari
	crews would seem perfect propaganda fodder for Clark, further
	"evidence" that Sheridan has gone over to the Minbari side as
	suggested in
	<a href="074.html">"The Illusion of Truth."</a>

	<p>
	Of course, it could be argued that many Minbari are part human anyway
	(<a href="075.html">"Atonement"</a>)
	and thus aren't completely out of place in a human civil war,
	but that argument would likely do little to dampen the effect of
	Clark's propaganda, should he choose to concoct any.

<p>
   <li>@@@865017413 Patriotism and its effects played a key thematic role in
	this episode.  Sheridan's patriotism (as described when he spoke to
	the other captains about the ideals of the Alliance) drove him to
	attack his own people.  Garibaldi's patriotism, if his conversation
	with Vir is to be believed, is strong as well, but Sheridan's
	methods are abhorrent to him.  Londo's patriotism led him to forsake
	his friends, and now he finds himself alone.  G'Kar's patriotism
	lost him his eye.

	<p>
	Perhaps even Clark believes he's acting in Earth's best interest,
	though that puts him on a collision course with Sheridan.

<p>
   <li>@@@865184651 Did Garibaldi tell Edgars about Sheridan's imminent
	campaign?  If so, Edgars doesn't appear to have relayed the information
	to Earth Force, since the commanders at Proxima 3 were unaware Sheridan
	was on the move.  On the other hand, Garibaldi didn't know the
	particulars of the first phase of the campaign.

<p>
   <li>@@@865180152 Garibaldi apparently
	didn't visit G'Kar to say goodbye (or at least, no such visit was
	shown.)  Why not, especially given what G'Kar went through while
	searching for him?

<p>
   <li>@@@865180478 G'Kar is apparently still working on the book he started
	while in prison
	(<a href="052.html">"Messages from Earth."</a>)

<p>
   <li>@@@865798185 When Londo asked about G'Kar's eye, G'Kar responded,
	"It sees."  His eye is therefore probably not, at present, the "eye
	that does not see" from Lady Morella's prophecy
	(<a href="053.html">"Point of No Return."</a>)
	Was his natural eye in fact the one referred to by the prophecy?
	Since it needs to be recharged nightly to continue seeing
	(<a href="075.html">"Atonement"</a>)
	and since it's not in evidence 17 years in the future, when G'Kar
	and Londo kill each other
	(<a href="061.html">"War Without End, Part Two"</a>)
	the artificial eye may yet turn out to be the one Morella was referring
	to.

<p>
   <li>@@@865180478 Londo offered a toast to the humans, who he regards as
	a bridge between the Centauri and Narn.  This echoes Delenn's statements
	(<a href="037.html">"And Now For a Word,"</a>
	<a href="077.html">"Lines of Communication"</a>)
	that humanity's greatest strength is the ability to form communities
	of diverse people.

<p>
   <li>@@@865016822 The drink Londo referred to while talking to G'Kar was in
	<a href="031.html">"The Coming of Shadows,"</a>
	bought by G'Kar after he learned the Centauri Emperor had come to
	make peace with the Narn.

	<p>
	Shortly thereafter, Londo did have some inkling that he was losing
	his friends thanks to his activities; he offered Garibaldi a drink in
	<a href="034.html">"Acts of Sacrifice,"</a>
	acknowledging that the two were still "friends, if only for a little
	while."

<p>
   <li>@@@865533963 Londo's rationale for the joint declaration was nearly
	identical to Sheridan's argument for allowing the White Star fleet
	to patrol Narn and Centauri space
	(<a href="078.html">"Conflicts of Interest."</a>)
	However, since Sheridan apparently decided not to publicize the
	fact that both the Narn and Centauri had agreed to the patrols
	(assuming the Narn agreed -- it's only been explicitly stated that
	the Centauri did) this joint declaration is the first official
	act of unity that's been shown.

<p>
   <li>@@@865180152 Vir's nightmare presumably related to the assassination
	of Cartagia
	(<a href="071.html">"The Long Night."</a>)
	It's odd that he cried out, "I didn't do it," when in fact he did
	kill Cartagia, perhaps an indication that part of him still doesn't
	believe what he did.

	<p>
	On the other hand, it's possible he was dreaming of something else,
	perhaps one of the precognitive dreams Centauri have.  In that case,
	one candidate that'd fit his exclamation would be his discovery of
	the dead bodies of Londo and G'Kar
	(<a href="061.html">"War Without End, Part Two."</a>)

	<p>
	One other Centauri has been shown awakening from a nightmare recently:
	the Regent in
	<a href="073.html">"Epiphanies,"</a>
	who awoke to discover he had a Keeper attached to his neck.

<p>
   <li>@@@864920269 Earth appears to have improved its scanning technology;
	White Star ships were hit more than once during the battle.  Previously,
	Earth weapon systems haven't been able to lock onto Minbari ships (e.g.
	<a href="023.html">"Points of Departure."</a>)
	Presumably the White Stars, which incorporate much more advanced
	Vorlon technology as well, are even harder to get a fix on.  Perhaps
	the Shadows supplied Earth with some technical tips.
	
	<p>
	It's possible manual targeting was used (novel
	<a href="/lurk/novels/007.html">"The Shadow Within"</a>)
	and the Earth ships simply got in a few lucky shots, but that runs
	counter to Sheridan's message to the other captains that he wouldn't
	consider them hostile if their weapons didn't lock on.  That message
	wouldn't make sense if they weren't capable of locking on anyway.
	On the other hand, since Sheridan wanted to test the hostility of
	the Earth ships, he may have ordered the White Stars to turn off
	their countermeasures.  In
	<a href="023.html">"Points of Departure"</a>
	Minbari ships were able to make themselves trackable by the station's
	scanners as desired.

	<p>
	Either way, only one White Star was seen to have been destroyed,
	and then only because it smashed into a cruiser seconds after being
	hit.  Possibly the White Stars are advanced enough that a momentary
	loss of control is the only real impact from a single hit by Earth
	weapons.

<p>
   <li>@@@865277191 While Marcus was gathering information on the hostility of
	the Earth cruisers, his contact on Proxima 3 was under attack by ground
	forces.  What happened to the ground forces after the space battle?
	Sheridan appeared to consider the planet liberated once the commander
	of the Heracles capitulated; did she have authority over all Earth
	forces in the region, or are there still holdouts on the surface?

<p>
   <li>@@@865277191 Sheridan promised to liberate Proxima, then take the battle
	to Mars and finally to Earth.  What about the colony on Orion 7, which
	seceded from the Earth Alliance at the same time Proxima 3 did?
	(<a href="054.html">"Severed Dreams"</a>)
	Perhaps it has already fallen, or maybe it's not under as much duress
	as Proxima was, so Sheridan felt the best way to liberate it was to
	take back Earth.  Or perhaps it's a small colony and Clark didn't
	deem it worth the effort to take back.

<p>
   <li>@@@865016930 In
	<a href="060.html">"War Without End, Part One"</a>
	the White Star's Vorlon technology adapted its defenses to shrug off
	blasts from Shadow fighters after it was hit.  Will the surviving
	White Stars from the battle at Proxima 3 now be more resistant to
	Earth's weapons, and thus even more potent weapons?

<p>
   <li>@@@865708521 Commander Levitt knew that the League worlds had sided
	with Sheridan.  How did she know, if Babylon 5 is officially cut off
	from Earth?  The most likely answer is that she'd been watching the
	Voice of the Resistance broadcasts, which indicates that they are
	indeed reaching the colonies.

</ul>

<h2><a name="NO">Notes</a></h2>
<ul>

   <li>@@@864885020 The Alexander
	(<a href="054.html">"Severed Dreams"</a>)
	has survived and is apparently now patrolling Proxima 3 to guard
	against retaliation by Clark's forces.

   <li>@@@865016309 The Vesta's logo (visible on the bridge) is a stylized
	flame in a brazier.  Vesta is the Roman goddess of the hearth.
	The Heracles' logo appears to incorporate arrows in the "H" at
	the bottom, probably a reference to Heracles' poison arrows from
	Greek mythology.

   <li>@@@865277191 The ship that withdrew from the battle was the Juno.
	In Roman mythology, Juno was the goddess of light and birth.  In Greek
	mythology she was called Hera.

   <li>@@@866783759 The names of two of the ships that surrendered had
	symbolic relation to Sheridan's campaign.  The Furies were goddesses
	who punished crimes against one's kin.  Nemesis was the goddess who
	punished hubris -- putting oneself above the gods.

   <li>@@@865533511 The Pollux was named after Greek mythology as well.
	Castor and Pollux, the two main stars of the constellation Gemini,
	were brothers.  When Pollux was killed, Castor was so despondent that
	Zeus agreed to turn them both into stars so they could always be
	together.

   <li>@@@865533369 Possible continuity glitch: Just before Garibaldi's
	arrival, Vir drops his pen while he's asleep.  When he stands up,
	he's holding the pen again.  Of course, he might have picked it
	up upon awakening.

<img align=right width=159 height=127 alt="" src="/lurk/gif/081/pollux.jpg">
<img align=right width=171 height=148 alt="" src="/lurk/gif/081/furies.jpg">
   <li>@@@874859104 Effects glitch: The Earth Alliance logos on the Pollux
	and the Furies are backwards.  The "E" can be seen to point to the
	left rather than the right.<br clear=all>

</ul>

<h2><a name="JS">jms speaks</a></h2>
<ul>

   <li>@@@864752359 <em>Why don't we ever see Clark?</em><br>
	I wanted to keep Clark more a force than a person...and Vir
	has just been off doing his usual Vir stuff...he's back this coming
	week.

<p>
   <li>@@@865362300 Proxima 3 is in the Proxima Centauri system, next door to
	Proxima 2, but no one goes there because the tourist season is way too
	short.

<p>
   <li>@@@865269464 "It seems to me that the White Stars (particularly in
	the numbers I perceived in this Ep)  should have been able to deal with
	the Earth ships like lamb to a slaughter."

	<p>
	Yeah, if all you want is to slaughter fellow humans and
	officers; if you want to try to minimize the body count of your fellow
	officers, who you want to eventually side with you, it's more
	difficult, you have to keep the kid gloves on...which endangers you in
	the long run.

<p>
   <li>@@@865446689 "were these White Stars tired or something? I would've
	expected that a couple of them could just go slice-slice, sever the
	rotating sections on the EA ships and have 'em for breakfast."

	<p>
	Sure, if all you're interested in is slaughtering the opposition...they
	were designed for "destroy"...when you have to pull your punches to
	avoid just going in and killing EVERYthing in sight...which will only
	work *against* you in the long run, it becomes more difficult.

<p>
   <li>@@@865492857 <em>There were a lot of ethical decisions on all
	sides, something you don't usually see in military SF.  Were you
	in the military?</em><br>
	No, I wasn't in the military, just having missed the Vietnam
	draft. The points you mention are all the ones I wanted to get into
	with that episode, and the ones a lot of folks have overlooked in
	suggesting that it should have been an episode about slicing-and-dicing
	the enemy (the enemy in this case being our own species).  The show, at
	root, is about ethics, among other things, and the ethical choices will
	continue to get more difficult the deeper you go.  There is a very fine
	line that Sheridan's walking in all this.

<p>
   <li>@@@865492857 It's certainly an issue I care about quite a lot, and the
	delicate balance between orders and conscience, between what you think
	you should be doing vs. what you feel you *must* do, is the heart of
	99% of all drama.

<p>
   <li>@@@865578466 "G'Kar seems to know that it's Mollari at his door -- why
	else would he wait so long to call, "Enter?"  But how did he know --
	was it an official request by Londo?"

	<p>
	If you recall, when Garibaldi visited Vir, Vir mentioned that
	Londo was arranging a meeting with G'Kar, so it was definitely set up
	in advance.

<p>
   <li>@@@865269464 The Londo/G'Kar stuff was nifty...and yes, he's
	struggling toward redemption as best he can, making a real effort, which
	is important, because if he's going to end up with a Keeper on him
	eventually, as we've seen, best to feel for him, which you can't if
	he's a bad guy.

	<p>
	Set 'em up, knock 'em down....

<p>
   <li>@@@865492857 If G'Kar came around too easily or quickly, it would
	ring false; it had to go through some time and reflection.  But even
	though one could certainly agree with his anger over what's happened,
	G'Kar has to try and overcome that and even transcend it.


</ul>