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lurkers-guide


								<!-- TITLE And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place -->


								<h2><a name="OV">Overview</a></h2>


								<blockquote><cite>

								Londo uses G'Kar and Vir to gain power in the

								Centauri Royal Court.  Sheridan is consumed by his analysis of the Shadows'

								strategies.</cite>


								<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Turenne,+Louis">Louis Turenne</a> as Brother Theo.

								<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Forward,+William">William Forward</a> as Lord Refa.


								</blockquote>


								<pre><a href="/lurk/p5/intro.html">P5 Rating</a>: <a href="/lurk/p5/064">8.71</a>


								Production number: 320

								Original air week: September 8, 1996 (UK)

										   October 14, 1996 (US)

								<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00009OOFK/thelurkersguidet">DVD release date</a>: August 12, 2003


								Written by J. Michael Straczynski

								Directed by David Eagle

								</pre>


								<h3>Watch For</h3>


								<ul>

								<li>A Centauri guard leaving his post.

								<li>@@@904014086 <a href="#NO.jesus">A musical allusion.</a>

								</ul>


								<p>

								<hr size=3>


								<h2><a name="BP">Backplot</a></h2>


								<ul>


								   <li> The Minbari have been constructing a fleet of warships based on the

									White Star design.  They are manned by Rangers.


								   <li> Sheridan has stayed away from Delenn up until now because "she has

									enough problems of her own."


								   <li> There is a thriving underground on Earth opposing President Clark.


								   <li> Na'Toth is believed to have been on Narn at the time of the Centauri

									attack

									(<a href="042.html">"The Long, Twilight Struggle."</a>)


								</ul>


								<h2><a name="UQ">Unanswered Questions</a></h2>


								<ul>


								   <li> What does the countdown to Z refer to?

									(See <A href="#AN.z">Analysis</a>)


								   <li> Why didn't Delenn inform Sheridan of the fleet of White Star-class

									ships before now?


								   <li> How long have the Minbari been building the ships?


								   <li> How big is the White Star fleet?


								   <li> What will Sheridan use the data crystal given to him by the Reverend

									for?


								   <li> Will Virini use the data crystal that Londo gave him? Will it result

									in Refa's family being discredited?


								   <li> Will G'Kar respect Londo more now that he has freed the Narns,

									or does he see Londo's ploy as purely self-serving?


								   <li>@@@845932780 How did Londo get G'Kar to listen to him long enough to

									describe the plot, and how did he convince G'Kar it wasn't a trick?


								   <li>@@@845932842 Virini mentions that Londo's house is gathering a lot

									of funds.  Where is Londo getting the money?


								   <li>@@@845972766 Did Refa's telepath find out about any of the activities

									Vir has been involved in, such as his work to help the Narn?


								   <li> What is the real reason for the Shadows' attack pattern?


								   <li> Is Na'Toth in fact still alive?


								</ul>


								<h2><a name="AN">Analysis</a></h2>


								<ul>

								   <li> It seems likely that the "Z Minus..." times refer to Z'ha'dum,

									but they might also refer to a more specific "Zero Hour." The

									question remains, what happens at Z? A Shadow offensive?

									An offensive against Z'ha'dum?  Someone's arrival on or from

									Z'ha'dum?


								   <li> G'Kar, in cooperating with Londo and

									killing Refa, has become an unwitting help to Londo in serving the

									Shadows. His desire for revenge against Refa and his need to save a

									small number of his people seems to have served the Shadows' greater

									purposes, at least to the extent that Londo's good fortune is part

									of their plans.


								   <li>@@@846748219 G'Kar may have been in on Londo's plan even before he

									left Babylon 5, possibly even before Vir spoke to him.  The story about

									Na'Toth

									was solely intended to lure Refa to Narn; there was no need for Londo

									to deceive G'Kar about his intentions, since G'Kar would almost

									certainly have been willing to risk a trip to Narn for the sake of

									two thousand prisoners.


								   <li> If the already-poisoned Refa could be considered "one who is

									already dead," Londo may have just passed by one of his prophesized

									chances for redemption.


								   <li> Neroon's statement in "Grey 17 is Missing" that non-Warrior

									Minbari had constructed <i>ships</i> may have been foreshadowing of

									the fleet revelation.


								   <li>@@@846749879 Why did Delenn find Sheridan's attempt to think like

									the Shadows so abhorrent?  Are there things about them she knows

									but hasn't revealed yet that would cause that reaction?


								   <li>@@@846746161 Delenn said that the first wave of White Star-class ships

									was now ready.  How many waves are planned?


								   <li>@@@846747247 Now that Londo thinks he has avenged Adira's death

									(<a href="059.html">"Interludes and Examinations"</a>)

									will he be less eager to continue dealing with the Shadows?  And will

									he ever discover that it was Morden, not Refa, who arranged to have

									her killed?


								   <li>@@@846891016 A few readers have commented that since a replica of the

									Centauri throne room is being built on Narn, perhaps that's where

									Sheridan's flashforward

									(<a href="061.html">"War Without End, Part Two"</a>)

									takes place.  That's unlikely, though, since Londo forces Sheridan

									to look out the window and see the devastated landscape of Centauri

									Prime.


								</ul>


								<h2><a name="NO">Notes</a></h2>

								<ul>


								   <li> The

									<a href="#JS.song">song</a>

									from which the title is derived, "No Hiding Place," refers to the

									Book of Revelation, in which man attempts to hide from the wrath

									of God in mountains and rocks.

									<a href="http://www.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=English&version=NIV&passage=Revelation+6:15-17&search=&showxref=&showfn=">Revelation 6:15-17.</a>


								   <li>@@@904014086 <a name="NO.jesus">During Refa's death scene,</a>

									as the vocalist sings, there's a closeup of G'Kar just as she

									sings the name "Jesus."  G'Kar-as-Jesus allusions are found elsewhere

									in the series as well, but this may be the most direct one.


								   <li> The mass driver attack affected the climate of Narn much as

									it's theorized a nuclear winter or asteroid/comet strike would

									affect Earth: the particles thrown up by the asteroids used in the

									bombardment have created a layer in Narn's atmosphere blocking out

									the sunlight and altering the heating of the atmosphere,

									which has disrupted the wind patterns on the planet.


								   <li>@@@846006824 Refa's death scene may be a homage to "Cabaret," one of

									JMS' favorite films.  See

									<a href="#JS.cabaret">jms speaks.</a>


								</ul>


								<h2><a name="JS">jms speaks</a></h2>

								<ul>


								   <li> <a name="JS.song"><em>Where does the title come from?</em></a><br>

									It's from an old gospel song/spiritual.


								<P>

								   <li>@@@843940517 <em>Did Harlan Ellison suggest it?</em><br>

									No, as a rule, Harlan doesn't suggest titles; "Rock" came from the

									quote from the Bible, which was later made into a gospel song, used in

									the show.  So it's a real song, though I did write 2 for "Walkabout."


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865189277 Why's it called that?  Because it's quite appropos.

									How do we fit it? Not a big deal.  Longest title up to now was one I did

									for MURDER, SHE WROTE, a quote from Moby Dick, "To The Last Shall I

									Grapple With Thee."


								<p>

								   <li>@@@843940517 The song in "Rock" is an old gospel song.  I've always

									had a soft spot

									for old gospel songs and spirituals because of their wonderful use of

									language and imagery, and you can dance to 'em.  Not that I dance, but

									the theory is there, at least.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@844403652 My own take on "And The Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place,"

									which airs tomorrow in the UK...I like it.  The Brother Theo stuff is a

									tad stilted in a couple of places, but it's only a couple of minutes,

									and the rest works real well.  It's a very subversive episode in its

									way, and a part of it still creeps me out.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@843940517 I like symmetry...both as a word, and as a concept.

									It plays into the show a lot, showing the balance that the universe

									tends to impose whether we like it or not.  What goes around, comes

									around.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@864607027 <em>Some of the Narn buildings looked like Hiroshima after

									the atomic bomb.  Intentional?</em><br>

									Yes, there was some element of that.  It's not a moral judgment thing,

									but a referential point.  As for Narn architecture overall, I told them

									I wanted sort of an alien culture as the Soviet Union might've designed

									it....  everything tending toward the blocky, the functional, less

									aesthetic than you would find on Minbar.  This is a culture that has

									crawled up from war, and functionality is more important.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@843940517 <em>Was there a Narn standing in the queue of

									telepaths?</em><br>

									Not in the queue, but providing security within the station... remember,

									many of the Narns have joined B5 security.


								<P>

								   <li>@@@843940517 We're generally very careful about what aliens show up

									in what scenes.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@843940517 <em>Was the fact that the countdown started at

									14 days an intentional reference to the season finale being two

									weeks later?</em><br>

									Somewhat intentional; in the long run, the show will end up either

									aired daily, or stripped weekly, so either way the 14 days until climax

									works well, as it does now for the UK.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@843940517 The countdown aspect does add a lot to this, gives it a

									forward momentum and a kind of subliminal ominousness.  And as for the

									Refa situation presented in counterpoint...I love how that came out.

									It's almost subversive in a way...just gives me the quiet chills.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@845932780 Re: the rabbi singing the gospel song...a couple of

									points.  First, if you're visiting someone's church, it's only

									considered polite behavior to go along with what's there.  I have a

									number of Catholic friends who would sometimes go to temple with Jewish

									friends...and when it came time to sing, would do so.  Why should it

									not work the other way around?


									<p>

									Second, as I seem to recall, the line about "no hiding place" is taken

									from the Old Testament, which forms a substantial portion of Judaic

									teachings (but not the whole of it, a mistake many make).  Yes, there's

									some later stuff worked in, but the heart of it is from a common ground.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@845932780 Waitaminnit...I retract part two of my reply...I think I

									just stooged the origins of that song.


									<p>

									(whaddyawant from me, I just spent 12 hours putting my hard drive back

									together....)


								<p>

								   <li> <em>About the juxtaposition of Refa's fate with the song</em><br>

									It's comical...and it ain't comical...it's designed to elicit

									conflicting emotions, between what you *are* feeling, what you *should*

									be feeling, and so on.  I like uneasy laughter....


								<p>

								   <li>@@@843940517 That was one of those scenes which, when you do it,

									you know it's gonna stay around for a while....


								<p>

								   <li>@@@843940517 When I thought of that one, I just sat there and

									grinned.  It's so perverse, but yet so appropriate, all at the same

									time.  Just to further add a bit of creepiness to it, in the sound mix I

									had the editors verb up the music toward the fade out, so it had a

									slightly distorted edge to it.  The details are everything in a scene

									like that.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@845974553 Vir has to be *very* careful...he's on the razor's edge

									these days.  The higher up you go, the more you know, the higher the

									stakes and the greater the risk of choosing badly.


									<p>

									Re: "funny yet chilling," those are the scenes I love most...the

									ones where you're utterly conflicted, it's grotesque or frightening on

									the one hand, and comic or absurd on the other.  It leaves you

									uncertain which way to jump emotionally, and I love that

									feeling...caught betwixt and between.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@846006824 <em><a name="JS.cabaret">Originally in response to</a>

									<a href="054.html">"Severed Dreams."</a>

									"Cabaret" is one of JMS' favorite movies.</em><br>

									In a sense, it's going from one emotion or thematic

									element to a very different, but equally strong one, either as bookends

									or through intercutting. Going from the high of the victory, to the

									sudden shot of the dead troops, is thematic counterpoint.


									<p>

									Here's another...in "Cabaret" you've got a scene where the

									performers in the Cabaret are doing the sort of German dance where you

									slap your knees and thighs and chest...and they take it a bit further,

									slapping one another, it's all for comic effect...but during this,

									you're intercutting the owner of the cabaret being beaten to within an

									inch of his life by some Brownshirts outside.  You go from comic to

									brutal and back, with the result that the happy little dance suddenly

									takes on ugly characteristics, and the beating takes on the sense that

									the participants are having a sick kind of fun, that it's all just

									another kind of dance, a ritual.


									<p>

									That's what you have to look at as a writer...how this scene

									works, and how it interacts with the scenes in front, behind and

									"beside" it (for things happening simultaneously).  Sometimes, with the

									proper counterpoint, you can add whole new levels of meaning to a

									scene, or make the scene much stronger than it would've been on its

									own.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@846748723 <em>That was an elaborate scheme if the goal was simply

									to have Refa killed.</em><br>

									Londo points out that he could easily

									have killed Refa elsewhere...as he says, the point was to do it on Narn

									so that he could dishonor his house back home.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@843940517 <em>Was William Forward the one who said, "Why me?" as

									mentioned in one of your Usenet messages?</em><br>

									Yes, it was with the actor who plays Refa that I had that conversation.

									He was initially bummed out, figured I was doing what I was doing in

									"Rock" because I wasn't happy with his performance or something. So I

									pulled him aside and explained the situation, and indicated that we'd

									likely use him again as an alien character, under prosthetics.  If he

									hadn't done such a good job, this wouldn't have happened, because no one

									would've cared about the character.


								<P>

								   <li>@@@843940517 <em>You said a major character would die in season 3.

									Refa wasn't major.</em><br>

									Well, given that Refa has been around for two years, and Keffer was

									only in a few in one season, I'd hardly put them in the same league.

									Part of all this is how you define "major."  Usually, I've refrained

									from using that term...I would say someone you've seen since the first

									year, for instance, or an important character.


									<p>

									Certainly I was primarily referring to Kosh in my original note about

									all this...but a lot of folks took that and extended it past that point,

									which I just let go rather than correct, because the show should do any

									correcting.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@843940517 I think the message of mine you're referring to are the

									ones I wrote with Kosh in mind, not Refa.  But since I obviously

									couldn't say that at the time, some of it sloshed over into how folks

									viewed later episodes.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@843940517 <em>Will 500 Narns die in retaliation?</em><br>

									Except, of course, that going on at length about the death of Refa

									would require revealing what he was doing there...and I doubt very much

									that the Royal Court would like even the suspicion that one of its own

									was making deals with the Narns to become public knowledge...so it's

									extremely unlikely that there would be any retribution.  This is one the

									Centauri would prefer to sweep under the rug, I think.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@845974432 <em>Why didn't Refa's allies help him?</em><br>

									Bear in mind that all of Refa's people were *back on Centauri

									Prime*. He didn't bring them with him; to send word to Centauri Prime

									to bring them all the way out here, then on to Narn, would double the

									time required to get there, and by then the "rescue" would've been

									over.  That was part of Londo's scheme...he wouldn't have much time, he

									had to get in and get out.  Refa only brought a few with him, and they

									were needed to watch Londo and guard Vir.


									<p>

									As for the Centauri back home...you proceed from the assumption

									that all Centauri act as one.  I'm basing this somewhat on the early

									Roman civilization and government, where one side would sell out the

									other, arrange for deaths and murders, turn people over to their hated

									enemies as long as it advanced their position, or if they were allied

									with persons of power on a particular side.  Why did the Roman guards

									escorting Tiberius (a much less worthy emperor) kill the heir to the

									throne in "I, Claudius" (a much better leader, and well liked among the

									military)?  Because they were told to do so.


									<p>

									SF in TV has the tendency to portray aliens as monolithic...they

									put the good of their species as a whole above everything else.  Some

									do that; some do not.  Just as with humans.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@864607027 Refa had a flashlight, not a gun.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@864607027 Refa was his last name/family name.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@864607027 <em>Minister Virini looked disappointed by the

									outcome.</em><br>

									Not sure it was so much a look of disappointment as..."Okay, I know

									something here isn't on the level...but he's got it very well

									surrounded...and is it worth sticking out my neck to get into this?"


								<p>

								   <li>@@@848346057 <em>Why wasn't Na'Toth replaced?</em><br>

									I briefly considered giving G'Kar a second, after the revolving door

									Na'Toths, but as I looked at it...as you say, the others all DO have one

									like that, and I figured it might be good to have someone *without*

									that...especially after the fall of Narn, when the staff would be

									canceled.  And there's something I like about G'Kar being alone in all

									this.  Anyway, it varies the mix a bit.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@843940517 <em>Why did G'Kar help Londo?</em><br>

									Well, you combine the release of 2,000 prisoners, many of whom were

									likely resistance fighters, and the payback to one who orchestrated the

									bombing of Narn, and that adds up to a pretty good incentive to get Refa

									even WITHOUT Londo's presence in the deal.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@845974106 I wouldn't say they hate one another any less now than

									before; and yes, he would've sent word to G'Kar and arranged a private

									meeting, just the two of them.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@864607027 These two characters, Londo and G'Kar, are linked at

									the hips. That is their beauty and their tragedy.  And you will see

									some new colors to this in the first part of season 4.  This story is

									as much about them as anyone else.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@846748219 I think that if Londo sent word via the Babcom unit

									that he wanted a one-to-one with G'Kar, and that thousands of Narn lives

									were on the line, he would come.  G'Kar has nothing to fear from Londo

									as long as he's on B5...and if anything, I think he'd be amused if Londo

									did try anything.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@843940517 <em>Wayne Alexander was listed as playing G'Dan.  Which

									one was he?</em><br>

									He was the Narn who first met G'Kar on their homeworld; the only one

									with any lines.


									<p>

									Wayne has a considerably larger role in year 4 as an alien named

									Lorien.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@843940517 <em>Why doesn't Vir leave Londo now?</em><br>

									I don't know if Vir really has anywhere else to go....


								<p>

								   <li>@@@843940517 <em>John and Delenn kissing in front of a big group of

									warships seemed a little odd.</em><br>

									I guess it's really a matter of perspective.  It depends on what the

									fleet is *there* for, as well.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@843940517 <em>Why didn't Delenn mention the fleet before?</em><br>

									Well, as she indicates, she didn't *have* them before.


								<P>

								   <li>@@@845932780 I don't think she was so much withholding the

									information, as they just weren't ready yet, and the need for them

									wasn't there yet.


								</ul>


								<p>

								Originally compiled by Jason Snell.