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- <[Stephen]> Firebug is nice, I also like the [http://chrispederick.com/work/webdeveloper/ Web Developer Toolbar]
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- <[Stephen]> Oh, and ditto on the javascript spurning inclinations. I'm so used to thinking of javascript as the domain of 1) spammers trying to circumvent popup blocks and do Bad Things, 2) big players like Google (gmail, maps, etc.) who have borderline insane programmers that are able to wrest decent code out of the language.
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- Plus I've never really forgiven it for having a name so similar to 'Java' that most people (if they think about this stuff at all) group them into a box together when they actually have very little at all to do with each other except for some syntactical similarities.
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- <[Brennen]> I was still thinking [BadJavascript|this sort of thing] regularly not all that long ago, but it seems like we turned some kind of corner around a year ago, to where I now use stuff routinely (gmail, reddit, flickr) that has a coherent rationale for the dynamic client-side stuff.
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- There's still a lot to complain about; stupid JavaScript abounds. But it's no longer the most noticeable form. And the effects of its stupidity are lessened by decent-ish browsers.
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- There's also still something pretty nuts about the technological hoop-jumping it takes to do interesting stuff on the web. Sure, AJAX can do amazing things, and I can see it fitting into this model pretty elegantly (for some values of "elegant"). This doesn't change the fact that the whole thing is a ridiculous hack.
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