brennen
/
lurkers-guide


								<!-- TITLE Z'ha'dum -->


								<h2><a name="OV">Overview</a></h2>


								<blockquote><cite>

								Third season finale.

								A face from Sheridan's past takes him on a dangerous mission to meet his Shadow counterpart.

								Londo receives important news about his political future. The

								Shadows mass a fleet against Babylon 5.

								</cite>


								<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Gilbert-Boxleitner,+Melissa">Melissa Gilbert</a> as Anna.

								<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Wasser,+Ed">Ed Wasser</a> as Morden.

								<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Corey,+Jeff">Jeff Corey</a> as Justin.

								</blockquote>


								<pre><a href="/lurk/p5/intro.html">P5 Rating</a>: <a href="/lurk/p5/066">9.73</a>


								Production number: 322

								Original air week: September 22, 1996 (UK)

										   October 28, 1996 (US)

								<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00009OOFK/thelurkersguidet">DVD release date</a>: August 12, 2003


								Written by J. Michael Straczynski

								Directed by Adam Nimoy

								</pre>


								<p>

								<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000002VUY/thelurkersguidet">An

								episodic soundtrack is available.</a>


								<p>

								<strong>Warning: This episode reveals a lot of information, and there are

								spoilers below.  Think twice before reading on if you haven't seen

								the episode.</strong>


								<p>

								<hr size=3>


								<h2><a name="BP">Backplot</a></h2>


								<ul>


								   <li> The Shadows claim that the <em>Icarus</em> was sent to Z'ha'dum by

									Earth after Interplanetary Expeditions planted a homing device on the

									Shadow ship discovered on Mars

									(<a href="052.html">"Messages from Earth"</a>)

									and traced its path through hyperspace.


								   <li> A million years ago there were many immensely powerful species

									roaming the galaxy, but most left for "greener pastures," leaving

									the Vorlons and the Shadows behind.


								   <li> The Shadows claim they and the Vorlons are "shepherds," guiding younger

									races through the evolutionary process, though they have different

									methods: the Vorlons are like parents, trying to get their children

									to play nice and get along, while the Shadows believe that only through

									conflict and death can races become stronger and more advanced.

									They also claim that by enlisting the help of the Minbari and others

									against the Shadows, and by manipulating the younger races genetically,

									the Vorlons haven't been playing by the rules.


								   <li> The Shadows claim that the Vorlons' genetic tinkering is responsible

									for the sudden appearance of telepathy in humans, and that they

									got involved with Psi-Corps to try to minimize the threat to

									themselves.


								   <li> The Shadows' own name for themselves is 10000 letters long, and

									unpronounceable.


								   <li> Z'ha'dum is, according to Delenn, the Shadows' homeworld.


								   <li> The Shadows badly want to have Sheridan on their side because he has

									succeeded in uniting the various races into the "Army of Light,"

									something that's anathemic to their goal of growth through universal

									conflict.  If he unravels the Army of Light, it'll stay unravelled,

									but past experience has shown that killing him would simply cause

									someone else to take his place.


								</ul>


								<h2><a name="UQ">Unanswered Questions</a></h2>


								<ul>


								   <li> If the future as seen in

									<a href="060.html">"War Without End"</a>

									is unchangeable, then how does Sheridan survive?


								   <li> What was left of Anna after she was removed from the Shadow ship and

									sent to Sheridan?


								   <li>@@@847097295 Was the entire crew of the Icarus put inside Shadow ships,

									or were some of them killed?


								   <li>@@@847043767 What was behind the door Anna wouldn't let Sheridan open?

									(See <a href="#JS.door">JMS Speaks</a>)


								   <li> How much truth is there in the Shadows' statements?


								   <li> Why did the Vorlons and Shadows stay behind when the other First Ones

									left?


								   <li> Where exactly did the other First Ones go, and why?


								   <li> Were the Vorlons also responsible for telepathy in Narns and Minbari

									around the time of the last war?


								   <li>@@@847218922 If the Vorlons and the Shadows are trying to guide the

									evolution of the younger races, do they have an objective in mind?

									If so, what?


								   <li> Who or what is Justin? Where did he come from? Was he also a member of

									the Icarus crew?


								   <li> What is the pit Sheridan jumped toward?  (See

									<a href="#AN.pit">Analysis</a>)


								   <li>@@@846912771 Anna told Sheridan that time doesn't work the same way

									on Z'ha'dum as elsewhere.  How <em>does</em> time work there, and

									why is it different?


								   <li> Was the destroyed city the only city on Z'ha'dum?


								   <li> How badly have the Shadows been hurt?


								   <li> Did Morden and/or Justin survive?


								   <li> Did Londo get off the station after his warning?


								   <li>@@@847444283 Where were the Minbari ships shown at the beginning of

									the episode when the Shadows appeared?


								   <li> Why did the Shadows take Garibaldi? Luck? Their plan? His plan?


								   <li> What ever happened to Mr. Garibaldi?


								</ul>


								<h2><a name="AN">Analysis</a></h2>


								<ul>


								   <li> Given that Anna most likely lied about the fate of the Icarus' crew,

									and that they tried to mislead him about what had been done to her,

									much of what Sheridan was told may be lies or misrepresentation as

									well, and it's possible that important elements of the relationship

									between the Vorlons, Shadows, and the other First Ones were left

									unsaid.


								<p>

								   <li> The Shadows have a similar worldview to that of the Lumati

									(<a href="034.html">"Acts of Sacrifice,"</a>)

									namely that individuals deserve to fall by the wayside if they aren't

									strong enough to fend for themselves.  The Drazi and others might

									also come to agree with the Shadows' motives if they were explained.

									Assuming Sheridan has survived somehow, what will Delenn and Kosh

									do to keep the Shadows' side of the story from becoming public?


								<p>

								   <li> Anna told Sheridan, "It was supposed to be an equal balance between

									our side and the Vorlons." According to who?

									Did both sides agree to follow rules of conduct?  Are they

									acting on behalf of some other party who wants to see which

									style of evolutionary help will prove more fruitful?


								<p>

								   <li> Some part of Kosh is definitely in Sheridan's head -- Sheridan sees

									or hears him twice.  The first time is just before he leaves for

									Z'ha'dum, when Kosh says, "If you go to Z'ha'dum, you will die."  The

									second time is just before the White Star crashes into the Shadow city,

									when he tells Sheridan to jump into the pit.


								<p>

								   <li> Sheridan decides he is willing to sacrifice himself in the nuclear

									destruction of the Shadow city for two main reasons -- first, to help

									defeat the Shadows, and second, to try to avoid the destruction of the

									Centauri Homeworld he has foreseeen

									(<A HREF="061.html">"War Without End."</A>)

									His willingness to sacrifice himself also brings to mind the judgment

									of Sebastian

									(<A HREF="043.html">"Comes the Inquisitor"</A>)

									that both Sheridan and Delenn can sacrifice themselves for their cause.

									Delenn also told Sebastian the same thing the Shadows told Sheridan:

									that if they were killed, another would come along to take their place.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@846743775 Anna claims that the Shadows believe they'll die if

									anything Vorlon touches Z'ha'dum.  Is that simply a superstition, or

									do they have some reason to think that's true?  Perhaps they foresaw

									the detonation of the White Star in some way -- as it turned out, that

									belief wasn't too far from the truth.


								<p>

								   <li> Justin is probably "the man in between" from Sheridan's dream

									(<A HREF="033.html">"All Alone in the Night"</A>)

									-- Sheridan's counterpart.  But if he's truly equivalent to

									Sheridan, does that mean he's in control of the Shadows?  Of

									course, given the amount of manipulation by the Vorlons and the

									Minbari, it's questionable whether Sheridan is really in control

									of the army of light in any meaningful way; Kosh and Delenn have

									steered him toward their viewpoints from the beginning.  Still,

									if Justin is Sheridan's counterpart, he's more than a simple

									spokesman, and if that's the case, it begs the question, how did

									he achieve that position?


								<p>

								   <li>@@@846746561 Another interpretation is that "the man in between"

									implies that there's a third person, a "man on the other side."

									The presence of Garibaldi and two versions of Sheridan in his dream

									supports that interpretation.  In that case, who is Sheridan's

									opposite?  Perhaps it's Sheridan himself: if Justin had managed to

									convert him to the Shadows' side, he would have become the man on

									the other side.


								<p>

								   <li> Both Justin and Sheridan drink tea to help them sleep

									(<a href="064.html">"And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place."</a>)


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847044315 Sheridan's first question to Justin is, "Who are you?"

									That's the same question Sebastian asked Delenn and Sheridan

									(<a href="043.html">"Comes the Inquisitor."</a>)

									One could plausibly consider it the Vorlon question, their version of

									the Shadows' "What do you want?"

									(<a href="013.html">"Signs and Portents."</a>)

									Significantly, Justin refuses to answer the question in any direct

									way, even claims it's not important who he is.  That probably points

									to a major philosophical difference between the Vorlons and the

									Shadows.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847134359 Justin claimed there were two elder races left behind.

									Does that mean the Shadows don't know about the Walkers at Sigma 957

									(<a href="049.html">"Voices of Authority?"</a>)

									Or would they not consider that race to be remaining behind?


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847044425 What did Justin mean when he called Sheridan a nexus?

									Does it imply there's something inherently special about Sheridan,

									or does one become a nexus simply by being in the right place at

									the right time?  Certainly Sheridan's decisions affect the fates of

									millions of people now, but was that destined to be the case?


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847013287 Delenn said that nobody returns from Z'ha'dum the same

									as they arrived.  How does she know, and what does she mean by that,

									exactly?  Is it simply a matter of all visitors to Z'ha'dum being

									put inside Shadow warships?


								<p>

								   <li> The Shadows don't seem to have very good security, given that they

									failed to detect that Sheridan was carrying a second gun.  On the

									other hand, it's possible they <em>did</em> detect it, but elected

									for some reason not to do anything about it.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@844646097 Z'ha'dum's defenses are similarly flawed; the White

									Star was able to crash into the surface of the planet intact, apparently

									with no opposition on the way down.  Why weren't the Shadows vigorously

									protecting their homeworld?  Obviously they left the White Star alone

									while it was in orbit because of their guarantee to Sheridan, but

									once it started plummeting toward one of their cities, it's odd

									that they didn't shoot it out of the sky.


								<p>

								   <li> <a name="AN.pit">The pit Sheridan jumped into</a>

									was more than a simple depression; as he fell, just before the

									White Star detonated, he appeared to be passing through a tunnel

									of some kind.  Perhaps he was transported to safety by some means;

									that would explain Kosh urging him to jump.  If so, what is the

									pit, and did the Shadows build it, or are they merely taking

									advantage of something that predates their presence on Z'ha'dum?

									If the latter, was the city surrounding the pit a Shadow installation,

									or was it peopled by someone else?


									<p>@@@844646097

									It's also odd that, given that they moved their base underground

									"for security purposes," the Shadows would build a large, exposed

									dome above the pit.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847013010 Perhaps the pit is related to the Shadows' absence.  In

									<a href="022.html">"Chrysalis,"</a>

									Delenn asked Kosh, "Have the Shadows returned to Z'ha'dum?"  That

									implies they'd been somewhere else.  Perhaps the pit is a gateway

									of some kind, and Sheridan will survive by passing through it.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@845621508 Is Sheridan's descent into the pit related to Londo's odd

									greeting in

									<a href="060.html">"War Without End, Part One,"</a>

									"Welcome back from the abyss, Sheridan?"  If so, does that mean he

									somehow spends the intervening seventeen years either in the pit or

									associated with it in some way?  The former is unlikely if Sheridan

									and Delenn already have a son seventeen years later.


									<p>

									<a name="khazad">

									A parallel to Tolkien's "The Lord of the Rings" is possible:

									</a>

									Gandalf fell into the pit at Khazad-dum with the Balrog, died (as

									Sheridan will, according to Kosh) and was reborn as Gandalf the White,

									an even more powerful figure.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847013010 Sheridan may also, if he survives in some fashion,

									qualify as "the one who is already dead" from Lady Morella's prophecy

									(<a href="053.html">"Point of No Return."</a>)

									It's an even closer fit since Sheridan would be The One who is already

									dead.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847134359 In

									<a href="059.html">"Interludes and Examinations,"</a>

									Kosh said he wouldn't be there to help if Sheridan went to Z'ha'dum.

									But that's not how it turned out; Kosh was there, though it's not

									yet clear how much help he was.  What would Kosh have done for

									Sheridan on Z'ha'dum if he hadn't been killed?


								<p>

								   <li>@@@846887775 This is the second time Sheridan has leapt from great

									heights to avoid a bomb

									(<a href="044.html">"The Fall of Night."</a>)

									And both times, Kosh was involved, though Sheridan didn't know that

									when he leapt the first time.  Will Kosh's presence in Sheridan's

									mind somehow save him once again?


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847137184 Ivanova's plan (or possibly Sheridan's) to plant mines

									near an upcoming Shadow attack is the same strategy Sheridan used to

									defeat the Black Star in the Earth-Minbari War

									(<a href="036.html">"There All the Honor Lies."</a>)

									How will the Minbari, who denounced Sheridan's tactic as dishonorable

									then, feel about its use against the Shadows?  Perhaps they'll have

									no problem with it, since presumably Ivanova won't use a fake distress

									call to lure the Shadows in as Sheridan did to the Minbari.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865727965 Sheridan has now destroyed both the Black Star and the

									White Star, further justifying the Minbari nickname for him, Starkiller

									(<a href="023.html">"Points of Departure."</a>)


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847217835 If the Shadows were planning to implant Sheridan, as the

									arrival of the Shadow implied, why did they surround the station?

									Would they have attacked?  Their warning to Londo implies so.

									Perhaps they came both to attack if necessary and to pick up

									Garibaldi.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847134359 Shadow ships seem to have instantaneous communication

									with Z'ha'dum; they left Babylon 5 as soon as the explosion occurred.

									That's perhaps not so remarkable; B5 has near-instantaneous contact

									with Earth, and it's not clear how far Z'ha'dum is from B5.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847013593 The Shadows may have taken Garibaldi to try to alter him

									and get him to work for them.  Justin said, "Once you've been inside of

									one of those ships for a while, you're never quite whole again.  But

									you do as you're told."  Garibaldi may already be altered by virtue of

									his transportation in the belly of the Shadow ship.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847042174 Ivanova immediately knew that Sheridan was gone.  Simple

									deduction based on the missing bombs and White Star and the sudden

									departure of the Shadows, or did she sense something telepathically?


								<p>

								   <li>@@@845427732 If human telepathy is the result of Vorlon genetic

									tampering, is the same also true of Minbari and (former) Narn

									telepathy, and of other races as well?  What, then, of the Centauri,

									who (to judge by Londo's failure to see Kosh in

									<a href="044.html">"The Fall of Night"</a>)

									haven't been altered by Vorlons?  Where did they get their telepathy?


								<p>

								   <li>@@@845427732 Again assuming that all human telepaths owe their

									abilities to Vorlon modifications, Ivanova's genes, or rather those of

									her ancestors, have been altered by the Vorlons.  What other changes

									did the Vorlons make in addition to granting telepathy?  Will Ivanova,

									for instance, be more susceptible than other crewmembers to images

									projected by the new Kosh?


								<p>

								   <li>@@@845427732 The Vorlons may have had more than one motive for

									creating telepathy among the younger races.  There's the obvious reason,

									namely that telepaths are useful as weapons against the Shadows.  But

									it may also be that the Vorlons' goal of universal cooperation, if

									Justin's representation is to be believed, is furthered by widespread

									telepathy.  Presumably people are less likely to fight if they can

									feel their blows landing on an opponent's body from the other person's

									point of view, and certainly direct mind-to-mind contact would enable

									much more productive cooperation.  The Vorlons may feel that telepathy

									is ultimately most useful as a means of pacification, not as a weapon.


									<p>

									If so, the path to that goal cuts straight through Shadow territory;

									the Psi Corps, as represented by Bester in

									<a href="058.html">"Ship of Tears,"</a>

									is perhaps internally cohesive, and its members cooperate with one

									another effectively, but its leaders hold the rest of the human

									population in contempt ("Normals are expendable," as Bester put it.)

									It's plausible that eventually that will lead to conflict between

									telepaths and normals, with the winners in charge afterwards -- exactly

									the process the Shadows advocate.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@845427732 Likewise, the Shadows' actions seem to be at odds with

									their stated goal.  As Morden said to Sheridan, every time the Shadows

									come out and try to put their plans in motion, someone tries to unite

									all the other races against them.  Given that the Shadows seem to have

									been defeated in at least the last two wars, and probably many others,

									it's likely that someone <em>succeeds</em> in uniting all the races

									against them every time.  By attempting to create conflict, they

									instead promote unity and cooperation.


									<p>

									Of course, it could be that the Shadows and Vorlons actually want

									exactly the opposite of what Justin claimed, and they realize that

									if they push in one direction, the younger races will move in the

									other.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@846186676 The Vorlons' tinkering with humans may have been

									foreshadowed as far back as

									<a href="007.html">"The War Prayer,"</a>

									in which Kosh told Sinclair, "We take no interest in the affairs of

									others," while he was studying images of Earth history.  Perhaps he

									was simply studying the effects of Vorlon intervention.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847218922 Morden seemed disgusted by the thought of the Vorlons

									tampering genetically with humans.  Why is that more objectionable

									to him than the Shadows' implantation?  Perhaps it's because the

									Shadows aren't aiming to directly modify the species with their

									tinkering; presumably humans who are put inside Shadow ships never

									return to human society.


								</ul>


								<h2><a name="NO">Notes</a></h2>

								<ul>


								   <li> The episode's title, originally under wraps as mentioned

									below, was announced by JMS at the San Diego Comicon on July 6, 1996.


								   <li>@@@847044592 The concept of someone being a nexus also appeared in

									the novel "The Demolished Man" by Alfred Bester, which also contains

									the inspiration for the Psi Corps.  In the novel, the term is "focal

									point," and it's suggested that a focal point can cause tremendous

									changes not only to the lives of other people, but to the very

									structure of the universe.


								   <li>@@@852599233 Delenn's rendition of the human saying, "What is past is

									prologue," is from Shakespeare's "The Tempest."


								</ul>


								<h2><a name="JS">jms speaks</a></h2>

								<ul>


								   <li> I'm going to hold the title of 22 confidential as long as

									possible.


								<p>

								   <li> By the last few episodes, pretty much all of my cards are on

									the table. But by the last episode of this season, we find that the

									game we've assumed we've been playing ain't necessarily the game at

									all.  The show takes a fairly subversive direction, and of all the

									seasons so far, the one that follows, year four, represents the

									greatest writing challenge to make this actually work.


									<p>

									Which is another reason why it's important to get the B4

									storyline and several other threads out in the open, and clear the

									decks, because this is gonna take every bit of whatever talent I've got

									to pull off.


									<p>

									Year four is the point in the novel when you're just past the

									halfway mark; you know the reader thinks he or she has got the story

									sussed out. The reader knows all your tricks by now, or thinks he/she

									does.  You've been pulling doves out of your hat for 243 pages.


									<p>

									Now you'd damned well better be able to pull out an alligator.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>February 27, 1996</em><br>

									Well, it's done.  I have today turned in the first draft of

									script #22 for year three, which I suppose could be called a

									cliffhanger episode. This marks the first time in the 50+ year history

									of American television that one person has singlehandedly written an

									entire season of a series. (The closest record is Terry Nation, who

									wrote the 13-episode first season of Blake's 7.)


									<p>

									(I have no plans to do this next season, btw; this was

									necessary because of the substantive changes in the B5 universe this

									season.  Next season is a very different story...literally as well as

									figuratively.)


									<p>

									So far the film based on those 1,000+ pages represents some of

									our best work on Babylon 5.  There's some nifty stuff coming.


									<p>

									We are currently filming episode #18.  Four more after this,

									and we'll be finished shooting year three, as of April 9th.  Not long

									after, we should get the word on year four, probably by late

									April/early May.  But the writing is finished...and for the first time

									in 8 months, I will be able to go out, see a movie, play Wing

									Commander, find something that vaguely resembles a life.  This is where

									I now also become a director's worst nightmare: a writer-producer who's

									finished writing and finally has time to hang out on the set and give

									lots and lots of helpful advice.


									<p>

									It was a hideous task; two-thirds through I began to understand

									that there was a *reason* nobody's ever done this before...you'd have

									to be outta your ever-loving mind to even try.  But as with everything

									else on B5, if we don't know it's impossible, we just go ahead and do

									it.


									<p>

									The title, as stated elsewhere, is classified, though you may

									get a sense of what's coming in the two eps that precede it.

									Regardless, the writing on year three is now complete.  Overall, I'm

									quite pleased, and I think by the time you hit this episode, you'll

									feel the same.


								<p>

								   <li> Well, there's what one would *prefer*, and there's that which is

									*sensible*.  And the sensible answer is that no, once the last S3

									episode airs in the UK, there's no way on earth you're gonna keep that

									out of the public eye, and there ain't much sense to protecting it or

									hitting it with spoiler regs.  I'd let it go at that point.


									<p>

									(And, frankly, it'll probably slip out some time before that; when it

									hits, it hits, I've decided to let it go at that point...you just ain't

									gonna hear it from ME, that's all.)


								<p>

								   <li> "Or is it a matter of the title being a spoiler for an episode between

									now and then?"


									<p>

									Yes, that's my concern.


									<p>

									While I'm on the subject, an advisory: I gave a short interview to

									Entertainment Weekly the other day for their story about cliffhanger

									endings for various shows.  Now, the piece is going to run in May since

									that's when most shows (most *sensible* shows) will be doing their

									cliffhangers.  Ours won't run until July or October, depending on who

									you talk to.


									<p>

									There's a point where you have to decide between publicity (good for

									show) and secrecy (good for viewers), in the process of keeping the show

									on the air (also good for viewers).  So I let a few things out of the

									bag.  If you don't want to be spoiled, then you may want to avoid

									picking up and reading that story.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Why a cliffhanger, if WB is likely to delay the final episode

									until the start of season four?</em><br>

									Because the story calls for it.  Whether they show the cliffhanger three

									months or two weeks before the fourth season (assuming renewal), this is

									where the story goes.  It was constructed like a series of novels, a

									multi-volume saga, and like any good series of novels, you end on

									something big.


									<p>

									And this year, season three ends on something really honking big.


								<p>

								   <li> It has some surprises, with teeth....


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Why did you reveal the title at the San Diego

									convention but refuse to do so earlier in Chicago?</em><br>

									At Chicago, the assumption was still that the UK wouldn't be

									getting the final 5 until the US did.  But since now they'll be getting

									new (to the US) episodes starting in August, keeping the title quiet

									now seems kind of a moot issue.


								<p>

								   <li> I'm definitely looking forward to the reaction.

									Today, for

									instance, we did the final audio mix of "Z'ha'dum," our third season

									ending episode. All of the EFX were in place, the sound, the

									music...and after we did the piecemeal mix, layering in things in a

									stop-and-go fashion, we did our playback, watching it straight through.

									I don't think anyone was breathing for the fourth act.  Everyone was

									just wog-boggled.  The emotional impact of it all is quite strong.


									<p>

									When the lights came up, and I looked around to the stunned

									faces in the room, the only thing I could say was, "Welcome to history,

									gentlemen."


								<P>

								   <li> <em>Who was in the room?</em><br>

									The only people in the room are those involved in the mix,

									this isn't a screening, it's part of post-production.  It's me, John

									Copeland, co-producer George Johnsen, the sound editors, mixers, sound

									supervisor, a few others on the periphery.


									<p>

									At one point, one of the mixers was working on putting in the

									sounds as he went, hadn't yet gone through it all...and kept telling

									the sound supervisor (who was asking questions about how we wanted to

									handle some later scenes) "don't let me hear this, I don't want to

									know, I just want to see what happens next, this is great."  Which in

									this town, from folks who work on a lot of shows, is a good reaction.


								<p>

								   <li> It's a lovely episode.  This is the one where, after we

									watched the final audio mix playback, prompted me to say to the other

									producers working on the show, "gentlemen, we have just entered

									history."


								<p>

								   <li> One of the things I like about the episode is the emotional

									content, as it builds toward the end of the ep.  I've watched it (in

									finished form) a half dozen times or more...but certain sequences never

									stop being interesting.


								<p>

								   <li> An emotional rollercoaster is a good image for that episode;

									it takes you in every direction and then just drops you.


									<p>

									Re: the Revelations scene...we actually shot that entire sequence,

									with the notion of possibly re-editing "Revelations" and inserting the

									Melissa piece instead...sort of TV by way of soviet revisionism...and of

									course it was *always* that way...what other version was there?


								<p>

								   <li>@@@865283090 It's something we're considering; we had her do the entire

									message, and shot Bruce in those sequences, so we have that option.

									Sort of a Soviet revisionism approach to television....


								<p>

								   <li>@@@844381404 <em>Was using Melissa Gilbert instead of Beth Toussaint

									Bruce's idea?</em><br>

									No, since it was my idea re: Melissa.  It was a scheduling

									situation involving availabilities.  If it wasn't her, it would've had

									to be someone else...so I figured, why not?


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847444370 <em>Were the wedding photos in the episode actually photos

									from Bruce and Melissa's wedding?</em><br>

									Yes, we used their actual wedding photos.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>The flashforward in "War Without End" seemed to not be quite the

									same as the scene in this episode.</em><br>

									Sometimes there are practical considerations in the overall

									staging; when we shot the flash-forward, Melissa wasn't there, so when

									she was, there was some interest in restaging things.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@844028475 As for the music, no, it's the same orchestra Chris

									has always used. I've seen times when people assumed he was using synth

									and wasn't.  He uses the Berlin Film Symphonic Orchestra for a goodly

									amount of the work for the show.


								<p>

								   <li> The other crew of the Icarus shown on Z'ha'dum were all done CGI.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Was G'Kar's makeup different, or was it just the lighting?</em><br>

									Probably the lighting.


								<p>

								   <li> "So basically, what I'm asking is does the fact that

									G'Kar gets the last major speech in season 3 mean that he gets to do

									the voiceover for season 4?"


									<p>

									Not as such, no....


								<p>

								   <li> Andreas did a terrific job on the end monologue.  Very

									moving.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@852060283 Andreas did two takes on it; I think we used the first of

									the two.


									<p>

									The writing of it...this is just an estimate, trying to

									remember, but I think it took me about 10-15 minutes.  Which is

									actually a long time for me to stay parked on any part of the page.

									Obviously I already had kind of a sense of what was going to go into it

									before hitting the page, but the actual shape of it had to come in the

									moment.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Is G'Kar's willingness to sacrifice himself a sign that he'd be

									sympathetic to the Shadows?</em><br>

									I think that reasoning can be applied to any side.


								<p>

								   <li> "I hate you."


									Thank you.  I try.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Was the destruction of the vessel in "Walkabout" the catalyst that

									caused them to send Anna?</em><br>

									It's certainly gotten their attention...but it's the events in

									"Shadow Dancing" that tipped them into moving directly.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>If the Shadows can get to Kosh and kill him, why

									are Delenn and Sheridan still alive?</em><br>

									A good question, which we'll answer in the last episode of this

									season.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847613747 The shadows are *much* older technologically than a

									thousand years...that's just what Anna promised Sheridan we could jump

									ahead, between 1 and 10,000 years.  They're profoundly older than that.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@851907372 <em><a name="JS.door">What was behind the door</a>

									Anna warned John away from?</em><br>

									In a way, I was going more for the visual, the image...the whole show

									is a matter of what door you choose to go through, and the door not

									taken.  If you wanted to take the scene *absolutely* literally, then

									since that room adjoined Justin's, the shadows were inside.  Or you can

									take it a little more metaphorically.


								<p>

								   <li> The portrayal of [the Shadows'] motives is somewhat more elaborate, but

									the sense is there, and as you yourself note, there's a certain cold

									logic there which can be agreed with at some level.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Is the Shadows' story true?</em><br>

									What Sheridan is told, in that episode, by them, concerning their

									motives, is absolutely true, certainly from their point of view.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Does the Shadows' story "explain it all" about this

									subject?</em><br>

									Well, it sorta answers all the questions...it's hard to explain until

									you've seen the episode and the ones that follow.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847081639 <em>If that's really their goal, why are they attacking

									the younger races directly?</em><br>

									Well, look what happened when the shadows came out and attacked

									a couple of places...first they did so without anyone knowing it was

									them doing it, as we've shown.  So now everyone's running around like

									ants, scurrying for cover and trying to figure out what the hell's

									going on, accusing one another...then the Centauri got the credit/blame

									for it, causing further conflict...then they came out and sent everyone

									scurrying again, some to make alliances they thought would protect

									themselves (and thus enable them to make war on their neighbors, as

									shown), only to have that fall apart and they turn on themselves/each

									other.


								<p>

								   <li> The First Ones, Vorlons and Shadows aren't parents in any sense of

									the word...we all evolved on our own, there's no common genetics, and

									they didn't seed life here or elsewhere.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>What do the Vorlons and Shadows get out of this game?  Why did

									the other First Ones leave?</em><br>

									All those get answered in the first part of season four, so I'd rather

									leave it to that.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@864690715 <em>The Vorlons and Shadows don't seem to know who they

									are or what they want.</em><br>

									That's an extremely good and cogent analysis.  And you hit the

									theme right on the head, one we'll explore in year four with the

									Vorlon/Shadow situation...and which was presaged in "Infection," right

									in the first season, the first episode shot.  Sinclair says, in the

									ultimate moment in that conflict, "You forgot the first rule of the

									fanatic: When you become obsessed with the enemy, you *become* the

									enemy."  That is what is happening here, with these two and other

									parties.


									<p>

									It all comes together....


								<p>

								   <li>@@@864690715 <em>Did either side foresee Sheridan's leap?</em><br>

									I think the two sides have been too caught up in their own

									agendas to realize what was happening right under their noses until it

									was too late... except for Kosh, whose last traces did what they

									did...for a number of reasons.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@844393914 <em>I thought I heard Kosh say, "If you go to Z'ha'dum,

									will you die?"</em><br>

									No, he says "you will die."  Very odd...check it again.  We used

									the same audio track from before.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@844381405 I've checked it, and I think it was just the actor sliding a

									vowel to make it clearer; "if you go to Z'ha'dum (ah) you will die."


								<p>

								   <li>@@@844394086 <em>Did Justin go to Z'ha'dum on the Icarus?</em><br>

									No, he was assigned there later.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@846737717 <em>Was Justin's description of who he was and who he

									worked for a reference to anything?</em><br>

									No, it's not from anything I'm aware of, though it's a concept that

									seems very natural.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@846745468 <em>What influence did Justin have over the Shadows?</em>

									<br>

									Justin thought he had some influence...but perception and reality are

									often at odds.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@846746561 Justin is the man in-between...the "middle man," as he

									describes himself.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Why weren't there ships guarding B5?</em><br>

									Most would've been getting repaired from their recent

									engagement. And the shadows phased in too close to B5 for either ship

									to ship combat, or anything from Epsilon 3.  Any attack on them

									would've also destroyed B5.


								<p>

								   <li> One thing to also note is that when the shadows appeared, they swarmed

									all OVER B5 as fast as they could, circling it without slowing down

									much.  So if Draal *did* launch an offensive, it'd take out B5 in doing

									so.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847070040 The props department found the teapot, and found it very

									suiting to the environment, so they went with it.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Why didn't the door make a sound as it opened to let the Shadow

									in?</em><br>

									The shadows entered through a different door/entrance; it was to the

									right of the room, which would've adjoined the room next door.  Anna and

									John came through the door on camera left.


								<p>

								   <li> It's just a sound of stone grinding on stone.  With a slight animal

									like sound, as though entering someone's maw.  Which is what I wanted.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>How did Sheridan get bloodied?</em><br>

									Basically, my thought was that it was just the one shadow in the room,

									and there was a tussle with some others, and he started running, made a

									break for it...didn't seem worth the time to show what would've been

									only a few minutes of hit 'em and run.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@844381405 He was in close quarters with a small group, and fought

									his way out. This picks up right after that.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@850938149 The PPG bursts would've wounded the shadow, allowing him

									time to scramble out of there before Morden could draw.  He then had

									to fight some other humans in the area, scramble down some ridges into

									the cave areas, and then walk out.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@844393863 <em>Were the creatures chasing Sheridan actual Shadows,

									or just their servants?</em><br>

									No, those were definitely shadows.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@844028475 The final fate of the first White Star is very moving,

									like some great silver bird plunging on fire out of the sky, bringing

									retribution and striking one last time.  That kind of image is a very

									powerful one to me, and it works very well here.


									<p>

									As for what Morden and Justin told Sheridan...I'd say it was pretty

									much the truth.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@864690715 <em>Do you agree with the Shadows?</em><br>

									Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.  Motives are one thing; the means to

									achieving that motive, however, are a different issue.  And those means

									I do not agree with.  But on some level, their motives can make

									sense...as can the Vorlons' motives....


								<p>

								   <li>@@@864690715 It's...not that easy.  Can I make a pretty good argument

									for some elements of what they're about?  Yes.  (And did, in the ep.)

									It's a matter of extremes...their notion is fine, taken in small

									doses...in larger doses, no.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@864690715 <em>Why didn't the Vorlons reveal the Shadows'

									motives?</em><br>

									Because they don't trust us.  They know what's best for us, and would

									rather make the decisions for us.  That means controlling information.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@864690715 <em>Aren't the Shadows defeating themselves by giving

									everyone a common enemy?</em><br>

									Nope.  First they attacked careful to not let anyone know who was doing

									it, so they'd accuse each other.  Then they'd let another take the

									credit/blame for it, the Centauri in this case.  That'd spin off new

									alliances and new...wars, and everyone's scurrying for cover.  THEN they

									reveal themselves, and now you've got re-scurrying, some who try to make

									deals, and then attack others (as stated) thinking they have an

									unbeatable ally....most of the killing up until this point was done by

									the others, not the shadows.  This current campaign would also lead to

									scattering the pins,

									and watching as they restructure, and they'd pull out again to let them

									scurry...and keep chewing at each other, only coming out when necessary

									to tip things over, then recede again into the....shadows.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@844028475 <em>Did the White Star have a Vorlon consciousness, and

									if so, did it eject before the ship exploded?</em><br>

									No, the White Star didn't have any substantial consciousness to eject

									before impact.  It's gone.


									<p>

									And thanks, on it all...  G'Kar's final litany is very moving, and the

									music throughout works so well...as you say, it's going to be hard to

									beat.


									<p>

									But that's what we do around here.  Because if we ain't pushing it

									every day to get better, what's the point of living?


									<p>

									Having now seen the first two finishedS4 episodes...I think people

									are going to be pleased.  What strikes me about the new season is that

									it seems suddenly very mature, more filmic...everyone's very excited

									about it here.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Who programmed the White Star?</em><br>

									Garibaldi programmed it from the intructions given him by Sheridan; it

									would've been set to explode at a certain point.  He [Sheridan]

									gave it final

									detonation instructions when he signaled it via his link.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Was the talking bomb a nod to the movie "Dark Star?"</em><br>

									No.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Why were the bombs speaking English?</em><br>

									Who said they were speaking English?  In a WW II movie, when you go

									to the Germans, you can understand what they're saying on the premise

									that yes, it's German, but we're hearing it as English.  On the other

									hand, if Garibaldi programmed them, then they may have been in

									English...there's no way to tell exactly.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@846748272 The White Star blowed up real good, so it couldn't save

									Sheridan.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Refering to the shot of Sheridan above the city</em><br>

									The parapet shot was one I was very particular about, I

									really wanted it to feel *high*, and impressive.  That whole sequence is

									one I run again and again, it's very moving.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@850550019 <em>Why build an easily penetrable dome over an underground

									city?</em><br>

									It's an efficient way of lighting an underground city several

									miles across; you can open or close it to allow the big vessels in for

									construction purposes, and so on.  If you build something that big, you

									need some way of getting stuff IN there, then lighting it without

									consuming vast amounts of energy.


								<p>

								   <li> Yes, you're right, and the first one to pick up on that aspect, that

									with Anna, he never had the chance to say goodbye.  Finally, here...he

									did, with Delenn.  Also, the look on his face as he turns to her at the

									parapet...you feel every inch of his loss, being trapped, the end of the

									road.  He did a great job.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@848311263 <em>About Delenn and Sheridan's relationship</em><br>

									I don't think Minbari galvanize in quite the same way...with

									them, I think it's more a gradual, growing relationship, and as many

									do, there's just one day when the closeness crosses a point without you

									almost being aware of it...and there it is.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Whose voice told Sheridan to jump?</em><br>

									That was Kosh's voice, treated the same as always.


								<p>

								   <li> Well, it was either jump or get vaporized....


									<p>

									In that sense, as someone else once pointed out, Sheridan is a hero

									in the Heinleinian tradition.  He does the logical thing, whatever that

									is, to survive.  "Okay, I'm about to get vaporized...but if that hole is

									several miles deep, it might shield me and keep me alive for another 10

									seconds. Yes, there's the *splat* at the end problem, but I'll have 10

									seconds in which to figure out that problem...."


								<p>

								   <li>@@@844381405 <em>Is the hole a jump gate?</em><br>

									Nope.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@864690715 How deep is it?

									Several miles deep, maybe a lot more.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Was Sheridan's line in

									<a href="038.html">"In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum,"</a>

									"I won't go down easily and I will not go down alone," foreshadowing

									of his leap here?</em><br>

									The leap was always in mind, yes, but that line always kinda stood on

									its own.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@844795579 <em>Sheridan murdered a city full of Shadows!</em><br>

									If someone pointed to an aggressor city (and for the shadows there's no

									distinction between civilian and military, it's all the same, the only

									thing that drives them on), which was unified by its desire to wreak

									havoc and commit massive warfare, and said, "By eliminating that city of

									100,000 agressors you will save the lives of 8 billion innocent

									bystanders," I'd push that button in a hot second, and never regret it.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@864690715 <em>The city didn't look very alien.  Was that meant to

									imply it was inhabited by humanoids?</em><br>

									That wasn't the intent, no.  I think it's more the way it ended up. And

									it does have some nice elements, but it could've been stranger...if we'd

									had more time and more money.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>What happened to Anna?</em><br>

									She's an ex-Sheridan.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@847081639 What about Morden?  Oh, wait about 7 days, you'll find out.


								<p>

								   <li> "Was he [Garibaldi] captured, or did he volunteer?"


									<p>

									We'll have to see....


								<p>

								   <li>@@@844394086 There was a very specific reason why Garibaldi was picked

									up, and there's a suggestion of it in what Justin says at one point to

									Sheridan.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@844945885 Nope, I never identified Garibaldi as the support

									mechanism, only B5.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Was Garibaldi going with the Shadows to rescue Sheridan?</em><br>

									Well, given that Garibaldi is any number of light years away at the

									moment at which Sheridan is dropping, I'd say any attempt to arrive

									before Sheridan would hit bottom would be less than useless.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>If the Shadows were in league with EarthGov, why did IPX send a

									ship to Z'ha'dum?</em><br>

									Two different things...the allies of the shadows can know about us,

									can have used influence to start infiltrating the Psi Corps, long before

									we found out about them.  And bear in mind that Earth is not monolithic;

									the FBI may not know what the CIA is doing.  That some in the Psi Corps

									may have had something going on there doesn't mean anyone from IPX knew

									about it.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@846737717 <em>Then why didn't the Corps notice the big building

									next to the dig site, as shown in the comic?</em><br>

									The building was a lot bigger in the book than it should've been, more

									like a quonset hut arrangment hastily erected.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@846716619 "1) Why has Z'ha'dum not been destroyed by the Vorlons et

									al in one of the previous wars to prevent the Shadows return?"


									<p>

									Funny, that...you'd think maybe there was something of interest there.


									<p>

									"2) If the planet has been there for so long, would not the star that it

									orbits have died quite some time ago, given that the Shadows are so

									old?"


									<p>

									I don't think so.  Stars live an awfully long time.


								<p>

								   <li>@@@846742028 Oh, be assured, the interesting times for

									Londo haven't even *started* yet.


									<p>

									But they will, real soon.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>Would the Hugo people make an exception to their usual rules of

									nomination for dramatic presentations and allow all of season 3 to

									be nominated as a unit, since you wrote the whole thing?</em><br>

									But is it really an exception?  You have two books as potential

									nominees.  One is 100,000 words long, the other is a huge 300,000 word

									potboiler.  But they're both written by one author, so they're both

									eligible.  If a two-part episode can be considered a dramatic unit

									because it has one author, and a single episode can be considered

									because it has one author, then why not a 22-parter with only one

									author?  Just because the unit has more pages shouldn't mitigate against

									it any more than the 300,000 word novel should be disqualified.


									<p>

									If you stop and think about it dispassionately for a moment, the

									exception would be in NOT allowing a whole one-author season be

									nominated.  The committee has already allowed the notion of

									multiple-part nominees by accepting two-parters.  You've crossed the

									one-episode barrier already.  So logically if you've accepted that, why

									suddenly change it to just one episode?


									<p>

									Conceivably, I could take all 22 scripts, put a huge binder on it, and

									slap a cover page on it reading SEASON THREE, WRITTEN BY J. MICHAEL

									STRACZYNSKI, and drop that one single unit on the desk of the committee

									and say, "Here, here's one dramatic unit."


									<p>

									On one level, it's really kind of an intellectual exercise; I like to

									feather around the rules and see what things mean when little things get

									changed, and what the *sense* of the rule is vs. how it's applied

									sometimes.


								<p>

								   <li> <em>What about the entire 5-year run?</em><br>

									Actually, I'd mitigate *against* the 5-year story being considered as

									a whole dramatic unit because it has multiple writers.  I think that

									would tend to violate the spirit of the Hugos.


								</ul>


								<p>

								Originally compiled by Jason Snell.