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552 lines
24 KiB
<!-- TITLE Passing Through Gethsemane -->
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<h2><a name="OV">Overview</a></h2>
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<blockquote><cite>
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Lyta Alexander returns to the station at Kosh's behest.
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One of Theo's brothers discovers that he may have a hidden past.
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</cite>
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<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Dourif,+Brad">Brad Dourif</a> as Brother Edward.
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<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Turenne,+Louis">Louis Turenne</a> as Brother Theo.
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<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Tallman,+Patricia">Patricia Tallman</a> as Lyta Alexander.
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</blockquote>
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<pre><a href="/lurk/p5/intro.html">P5 Rating</a>: <a href="/lurk/p5/048">8.38</a>
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Production number: 305
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Original air week: November 27, 1995
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<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00009OOFK/thelurkersguidet">DVD release date</a>: August 12, 2003
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Written by J. Michael Straczynski
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Directed by Adam Nimoy
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</pre>
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<p>
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<hr size=3>
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<h2><a name="BP">Backplot</a></h2>
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<ul>
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<li> Mindwipes were instituted after Earth decided that they were more
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humane than the death penalty. They are apparently not very
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complete; the old memories remain in some form or another, but are
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inaccessible without the intervention of a telepath. (See also
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<a href="021.html">"The Quality of Mercy."</a>)
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<li> Minbari religion is based on the notion that souls are part of a
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larger whole, of the universe itself, which is in the process of
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trying to discover itself. Souls can only be perceived via the
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physical bodies they inhabit, but the real soul is something only
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dimly related to the body.
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<li> Valen, the great Minbari spiritual leader and founder of the Grey
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Council, appeared a thousand years ago. He is believed to be a
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Minbari not born of other Minbari, according to Lennier.
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</ul>
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<h2><a name="UQ">Unanswered Questions</a></h2>
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<ul>
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<li> What happened to Lyta? Was Kosh inhabiting her body? Was the
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body not even Lyta's to start with? She has gills on her neck that
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allow her to breathe in Kosh's quarters, and several health problems
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have been completely repaired. What else did the Vorlons do to her,
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and why?
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<li> Given how easily she pulled the information from the Centauri, have
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her telepathic powers increased? Or could any P5 do the same?
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<li> What did she see on the Vorlon homeworld?
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<li> Why is Londo so anxious to find out what she saw that he'd resort to
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threatening her?
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<li> What was Lyta's mission for Kosh? Why does he want an aide all of a
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sudden, when he hasn't had one before?
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</ul>
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<h2><a name="AN">Analysis</a></h2>
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<ul>
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<li> If Garibaldi and Sheridan are any indication, mindwipes are widely
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considered to be insufficient punishment for serious crimes. How
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widespread that perception is isn't known.
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<li> Could the techniques used to put a mindwipe in place be related
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to the method used by Bureau 13 to implant hidden personalities
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(<a href="041.html">"Divided Loyalties"</a>
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and, more ominous, comic #8,
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<a href="/lurk/comic/008.html">"Silent Enemies?"</a>)
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Both seem to involve submerging one personality and causing another
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to become dominant, though in the case of Control, it's not clear
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which was the original.
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<li> Edward's execution was not only a sort of crucifixion (notice how
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he's suspended from the metal frame) but also resembles Sheridan's
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suspension from what looks like the same kind of frame in
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<a href="043.html">"Comes the Inquisitor."</a>
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<li> Might Valen have been a Vorlon, or a Minbari under Vorlon influence?
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If, as Lennier says, he was truly not born of Minbari parents, that
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strongly suggests he wasn't Minbari at all, and Vorlons certainly
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have the power to appear as Minbari.
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<li> If Minbari consider the universe to be a manifestation of a single
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soul, how did they ever find it conscienable to fight the
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Earth-Minbari War? (see
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<a href="#JS.souls">jms speaks</a>)
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<li> The Vorlons didn't hear, or didn't respond, to Lyta's signals, and
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took five days to respond to her telepathic broadcast. What's
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interesting is that they apparently didn't come until she was nearly
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unconscious. Could that be related to what happened to Sheridan in
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<a href="033.html">"All Alone In the Night?"</a>
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Maybe she was only able to make contact when, as Kosh said of Sheridan,
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her mind was quiet enough to hear the Vorlons. Or, of course, it
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could simply have taken them several days to locate and reach her, in
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which case they could even have been responding to the non-telepathic
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signals.
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<li> Why didn't Franklin notice Lyta's gills?
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Perhaps he did and didn't feel they were worth mentioning (gill
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implants aren't completely alien concepts; G'Kar has them, as
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noted by the assassin in
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<a href="000.html">"The Gathering."</a>)
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It's also possible she didn't get them until her errand in the
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middle of the episode.
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Franklin did note that she had elevated oxygen levels in her
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bloodstream, though, which would tend to indicate both that she had
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the gills before he examined her and that he didn't notice them.
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Given the powers of illusion Vorlons have demonstrated, covering
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up gills would probably have been a small matter with Kosh's help.
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<li> Whatever left Lyta to enter Kosh's suit looked a lot like the creature
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inhabiting Sheridan in
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<a href="039.html">"Knives."</a>
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Could Sheridan have inadvertently been inhabited by a Vorlon?
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Certainly it would be consistent with him being made to see things
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that weren't there; Kosh clearly has that power.
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<li> Psi Corps may have strict rules against unauthorized scans, but
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Sheridan and Garibaldi don't hold those rules in particularly
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high esteem. Now that they have a non-Corps telepath at their disposal,
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someone whose loyalty is presumably above reproach thanks to her
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association with Kosh, will they begin calling her in on a regular
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basis?
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<li> The Centauri telepath, likewise, seemed to show contempt for the Corps'
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regulations. What regulations, if any, are Centauri telepaths
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obligated to follow? Clearly they're not simply allowed to roam
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freely, since Londo had this particular telepath's name on a list.
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<li> If Lyta can implant nightmares, other psis can presumably do the same.
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We've seen one nightmare: Londo's prophetic dream. Is it possible
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that someone or something implanted it in him? (He says, in
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<a href="001.html">"Midnight on the Firing Line,"</a>
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that Centauri have such dreams as a matter of course, but that
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doesn't rule out an external influence.)
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</ul>
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<h2><a name="NO">Notes</a></h2>
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<ul>
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<li> The title, as noted in the episode,
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is a Biblical reference. In the New Testament,
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<a href="http://www.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Matthew+26:30-50">Matthew 26:30-50,</a>
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Jesus goes to Gethsemane with Peter and two others to pray and
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contemplate his imminent betrayal. They fail to keep watch over
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him, and Judas is able to lead the Romans to Jesus. Gethsemane
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is also referred to, not always by name, in
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<a href="http://www.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Mark+14:32-52">Mark 14:32-52,</a>
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<a href="http://www.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Luke+23:39-51">Luke 23:39-51,</a>
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and
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<a href="http://www.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=John+18:1-13">John 18:1-13.</a>
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<p>
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<li> Delenn's opinion of Garibaldi's eye-for-an-eye attitude echoes that
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of Gandhi, who said, "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."
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<p>
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<li> Malcolm, Edward, and Charles are all names of rulers of Scotland.
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<p>
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<li> The names Edward and Charlie may also be a reference to two H.P.
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Lovecraft stories. In "The Thing On the Doorstep," a character
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named Edward falls in love with a woman whose grandfather has
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shifted his soul into her body, replacing hers. In "The Strange
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Case of Charles Dexter Ward," the title character becomes obsessed
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with the memory of an ancient ancestor.
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<p>
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<li> Shooting began on September 11, 1995.
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</ul>
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<h2><a name="JS">jms speaks</a></h2>
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<ul>
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<li> I'd rather not say anything at all about "Gethsemane," because a
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large part of the plot turns on something you need to discover
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mid-viewing, and anything I might say would only detract from it.
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It's a lovely, sad, very moving story; it's kind of my Twilight Zone
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story in the B5 universe, with some very strong emotional twists as
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we go along. It's not the kind of story I get to do within the B5
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structure very often, and I'm extremely pleased with this one (and
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Adam Nimoy did a *bang-up* job directing it; he thinks it may be his
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best work ever).
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<p>
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<li> Thanks. Adam did a great job interpreting the script on
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that one, and it's definitely one of our most successful
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episodes...though today I took a look at another, more
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completed version of episode 8, "Messages," and *man* is this
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amazing...just a knockout...trouble is we keep raising our own
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bar and won't accept anything less...so the pressure becomes
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quite astonishing after a while.
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<p>
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<li> Adam was great in that he's a *very* serious director
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who sits down and really thinks through the subtext of the
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episode, the thematic aspects, the underlying symbology, and
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then sits with the actor and *really* works with them so that
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they fully understand the nuances of the scene. A lot of TV
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direction can be rushed...you're always under the gun...so
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it's rare to find someone who really takes his time and
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prepares the cast.
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<p>
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<li> "Gethsemane" isn't a horror-type story at all, though it does have a
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very TZish [Twilight Zone] feeling, so it doesn't owe to any of
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those. Best to just let you see it when it airs.
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<p>
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<li> Brad read the script, fell in love with the part, and dived for it.
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<p>
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<li> Two things on the upcoming episode ("Gethsemane")....
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<p>
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1) This is episode #5 in shooting order; I'd originally planned to end
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the first batch of new episodes with #4, "Voices of Authority," which
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is a major -- and I mean major -- wham episode. But the EFX
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requirements were pretty hideous (though not as bad as "Messages"), so
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I moved "Gethsemane" into that slot, which is a very strong episode,
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though not an arc'er.
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<p>
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2) On the story question...yes, this was the story that someone else
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(don't want to use names, no sense in blaming anyone) had accidentally
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suggested while I was working on it early in season two. So I had to
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scuttle the script for nearly a year. Finally, very chagrined over
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what happened, the individual gave me a notarized form explaining the
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situation. At that point, I was able to reactivate the story. So no,
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it's not any kind of "it's okay to do this" notion about story ideas;
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as it is, the story was tied up for about a year, and might never have
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seen the light of day had not the other person made great efforts to
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set the situation straight.
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<p>
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<li>@@@864891412 On another service, someone without
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considering what he was saying (not his fault, it just happened) said,
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in essence, "What if somebody on B5 found out that he had been
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mind-wiped, and used to be something awful previously?"
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Well, I'd had "Passing Through Gethsemane" on the wire at that time, but
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when I saw this, I had to scuttle the story. It lay there, untouched,
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for over a year, until I could finally meet the fellow and get a signed
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release indicating what'd happened. If that fan had not been fair and
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reasonable, that episode -- which many consider one of our best --
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would never have been made.
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<p>
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<li> <em>Was there any nod to the person who suggested the idea, and what
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was the story originally like?</em><br>
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No, no nod to the person who suggested it, since this isn't a
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competition, and the suggestion cost me a year where I couldn't do the
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story. (So I wasn't in the cutest frame of mind about this for a long
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time, even though it wasn't really his fault.)
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<p>
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Basically, it would've been a one-shot, with two monks arriving to
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scope out B5 for the arrival of the rest later on. (You'll notice
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that none of the other monks get into the story here; that's a
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hold-over from the original outline, which I saw no need to change at
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this point.) So this would've been folded into an introduction to the
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order as they come to check out B5's facilities.
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<p>
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<li> They would've gotten the info in a different way, without resorting to a
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telepath.
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<p>
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<li> Carol: *exactly* the right point. In his earlier talk about
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Gethsemane, Edward mentioned that old JC had to go through all that to
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atone for the sins of others; when he sees Theo later, through the
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grate, he uses the same notion of atonement for the acts of another,
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in this case, *his* other. The logical parallel parses pretty closely.
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<p>
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<li> Not sure he *wanted* to die, as much as he felt it was *necessary* in
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order to atone for the sins of another...his own "other," in this case.
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<p>
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<li> <em>Where was Malcolm's mind wiped?</em><br>
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We established in "The Quality of Mercy" that the equipment to handle
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mindwipes is there on-station, locked away until mandated by a court. A
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court assigned telepath is usually brought in to do a preliminary scan
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before it happens and to verify the wipe immediately afterward. In that
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same episode, Talia was used only because a court teep wasn't available.
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<p>
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<li> Yes, B5 has a court system, authorized by the Earth Alliance
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Judicial System, to conduct trials of this sort (which we've seen
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before). And in this case, again, there wasn't a trial per se as
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Ivanova noted; he pleaded guilty from the start, quite proud of what
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he'd done. So all that remained was the sentencing.
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<p>
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<li> I'd say there were extenuating circumstances here that made it more than
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just a simple murder (and not all murders get wiped, esp. in cases like
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second-degree or manslaughter). He'd stalked Edward for years; arranged
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to break the mindwipe; and engaged in slow, deliberate, methodical
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torture unto death. The degree of premeditation is staggering.
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<p>
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<li> No, the other brothers aren't mind-wiped.
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<p>
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You're mis-remembering "The Quality of Mercy." Telepaths do NOT
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perform mindwipes. A court appointed teep makes a scan before and after
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for purposes of comparison, but the wipe is done by a device held under
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lock and key until ordered out by a court. The only reason Talia did it
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in QoM was because they couldn't get a court teep there in the required
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time (which was also stated in the episode). So here the court
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appointed telepath would have come and gone by now.
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<p>
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<li> <em>Mindwiping was presented too positively.</em><br>
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I'm not sure I presented it positively; I just presented it, didn't make
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a moral judgement about it. Some of those in the show did, but then we
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had Edward saying it *isn't* moral, that it's a monstrous thing to do.
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Like any form of punishment it can seem fair to those not facing it.
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<p>
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<li> There are templates used, with some variations. In a government
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monitored situation (which this wasn't, they thought he was dead),
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mindwipes are kept in servile positions, not allowed to achieve, as that
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would be a kind of reward. Those guys you see along the roadsides
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picking up trash and putting them in bright orange bags? Mindwipes.
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<p>
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<li> Re: mindwipes no longer considered people...this really is not that
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much different from prison inmates, who are given numbers, have no real
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civil rights, and are treated like cattle. (And many of them deserve
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it; a few deserve worse; a few deserve better.)
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<p>
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<li> <em>About the moral ambiguity</em><br>
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Thanks. That's really the intent; to get people to talk about the
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issues raised, and to examine the issues. We won't tell you what to
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think about an issue, because I don't have an answer myself...but if it
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made you stop and consider this stuff, and decide for yourself where
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you fall in the discussion, then it's done its job.
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<p>
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<li>@@@864891412 It's a hard thing to walk the line between not
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being effective and being heavy-handed...I think it worked
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quite well in that respect.
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<p>
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<li>@@@864891412 The Centauri did not steal the bag; he had left long
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before Edward lost it (we see him drop and leave it behind in the
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hallway). As Garibaldi said, someone found it and tried to sell it.
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<p>
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<li> If the Centauri teep had had more time to react he probably would have
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gone after Garibaldi...but Lyta came in too fast, and she took his
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attention quickly.
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<p>
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<li> Re: the Centauri...note that Edward wasn't killed where
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they found him. He was taken and killed elsewhere, in a area
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they'd more or less secured for that purpose. That was the
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area he knew about.
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<p>
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<li> Re: the use of Lyta to extract the info...this is the main reason why
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there's a Psi Corps, and there are exacting rules, otherwise it can
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easily become deus ex machina. We won't ever do this sort of thing
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trivially, and here it was definitely meant to be a little
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disturbing...it was a sheer matter of life or death, the guy was a
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creep, and somewhere Edward was bleeding to death. Even after so many
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viewings, and even having written the thing, I find that one scene
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vaguely scary.
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<p>
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It's the best of the first four, I think. But better is coming....
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<p>
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<li>@@@864891412 <em>The interrogation scene was disturbing.</em><br>
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Yes, that's definitely the sense I was going for. That scene frankly
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unsettles and scares me a little, because it does show our characters
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skirting the line...yes, it's absolutely necessary, every moment is
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precious if they're going to try to save Edward's life...but it's still
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a bit creepy.
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<p>
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<li>@@@864891412 How Sheridan and Garibaldi got away with it?
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<p>
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"Telepath? What telepath? Never happened. Can you describe her? No?
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I see. Well, I don't remember seeing anyone in there, Mr. Garibaldi, do
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you? We'd check the logs to be absolutely sure, because we'd hate for
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this sort of thing to happen, but we had a small glitch in the software,
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and the recorders didn't work...still, we're working on it, and we hope
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to have it taken care of in the next few months. Would you like some
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more tea, Ambassador?"
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<p>
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<li>@@@833696560 What Kosh was doing with Lyta (that
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sounds vaguely suggestive) wasn't a one-time event. There was a
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transference going on, and that aspect will be heard from again.
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<p>
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<li>@@@833868577 <em>Why did it take Lyta so long to get to the
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Vorlons?</em><br>
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Well, she didn't go directly into Vorlon space; she left, went
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around a bit, had to find a pilot willing to take her...it was a time
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consuming process.
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<p>
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<li>@@@864891412 Contacting the Vorlon government isn't the hard part;
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getting into and out of their space is what's hard. We showed in the
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pilot that B5 and Earth were in *contact* with the Vorlons; Lyta was
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trying to get inside their turf, and they aren't exactly neighborly in
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that respect.
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<p>
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<li> <em>Why did it take so long for a med team to get to Edward?</em>
|
|
They were in a pretty distant part of DownBelow, and in B5 you don't
|
|
have trains or cars; there's just the transport tubes, and the central
|
|
core shuttle. Even if they gave a damn about what happens to lurkers in
|
|
DownBelow (and they generally don't), it would still take at least 5-10
|
|
minutes to get a trauma team down there, and he was dead within about 3.
|
|
(I was once mugged half a mile from a police station and a mile from a
|
|
hospital; took 'em 30 minutes to get there.)
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
Sheridan and Theo didn't *discover* that Edward was using the
|
|
computer; Theo was concerned that he was looking into it in general.
|
|
And if they had blocked the computer in his quarters, he would have been
|
|
able to access one somewhere else. They didn't know he'd actually done
|
|
it until after the fact.
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
<li> The absolution scene, based on what used to be called the rites of
|
|
extreme unction, or last rights, is now called the "celebration" of
|
|
passing, and I went to the Catholic church's information office, and
|
|
got the actual text. I made a few adjustments here, condensing it a
|
|
bit (on the logic that Edward didn't have a lot of time), and
|
|
modifying a few small points here and there, on the second logical
|
|
point that in 250 years, such might have taken place (as the current
|
|
ritual has been adjusted a bit here and there over the years). So if
|
|
it felt right, it was.
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
<li> One caveat here overall...it's been complimented and commented upon
|
|
that I would expose a belief system in my show which I do not personally
|
|
agree with (presenting the face of religion even though I'm an atheist).
|
|
That I could be this tolerant is apparently praiseworthy.
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
I would just suggest that at some point, when and if I should offer
|
|
a point of view from another perspective, which one watching might not
|
|
personally agree with, the same tolerance is given, since the virtue of
|
|
tolerating divergent attitudes has been deemed praiseworthy...and is
|
|
something ever to strive for....
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
<li>@@@864891412 Basically, Sheridan believes in a lot of things; he's
|
|
very eclectic in his views, can incorporate lots of different
|
|
perspectives, and has a respect for all views. In one of the early
|
|
season 3 eps, in fact, one character upbraids him for having "no
|
|
clearly defined pattern of faith," to which Sheridan replies, "I'm
|
|
eclectic, open-minded."
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
<li> "The themes of faith and forgiveness were worthy of a theologian. Are
|
|
you sure there isn't something you'd like to tell us?"
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
Never shoot pool at a place called Pop's. Never eat food at a place
|
|
called Mom's. The difference between horses and humans is that
|
|
they're too smart to be on what *we'll* do.
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
And I have lost people. Too many people. Lost them to chance,
|
|
violence, brutality beyond belief; I've seen all the senseless,
|
|
ignoble acts of "god's noblest creature." And I am incapable of
|
|
forgiving. My feelings are with G'Kar, hand sliced open, saying of
|
|
the drops of blood flowing from that open wound, "How do you
|
|
apologize to them?" "I can't." "Then I cannot forgive."
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
As an atheist, I believe that all life is unspeakably precious,
|
|
because it's only here for a brief moment, a flare against the dark,
|
|
and then it's gone forever. No afterlives, no second chances, no
|
|
backsies. So there can be nothing crueler than the abuse,
|
|
destruction or wanton taking of a life. It is a crime no less than
|
|
burning the Mona Lisa, for there is always just one of each.
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
So I cannot forgive. Which makes the notion of writing a character
|
|
who CAN forgive momentarily attractive...because it allows me to
|
|
explore in great detail something of which I am utterly incapable.
|
|
I cannot fly, so I would write of birds and starships and kites; I
|
|
cannot play an instrument, so I would write of composers and
|
|
dancers; and I cannot forgive, so I would write of priests and monks
|
|
and minbari....
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
<li>@@@864891412 In legal terms, in order to qualify for "a crime of
|
|
passion" there cannot be premeditation; it happens suddenly, in the heat
|
|
of the moment. By virtue of stalking Edward for nine years, the "crime
|
|
of passion" defense quickly goes by the boards.
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
<li>@@@864891412 From what Ivanova tells Lyta, about two weeks have passed
|
|
since the apprehension of Edward's killer; and yes, with slight
|
|
modifications to prevent mindwipes from running into one another, they
|
|
usually use preset templates in creating a basic history for the person
|
|
to be wiped.
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
<li>@@@864891412 <em>Why did Ivanova tolerate Lyta?</em><br>
|
|
Real simple. Lyta has proven that she was telling the proof about the
|
|
traitor; and she's on the run from the Psi Corps herself, putting her
|
|
and Ivanova on the same side; and she helped when she was asked to try
|
|
and find Edward.
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
<li> <a name="JS.souls">If there were just one pure and unchanged</a>
|
|
universal soul running through everything, there wouldn't be any point
|
|
in breaking itself into pieces and investing itself in different
|
|
species/people...it would just keep running into identical versions
|
|
of itself.
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
So the soul form in Minbari is different from the soul form in
|
|
humans; also, in their view, having been civilized longer than us,
|
|
their soul form is more elevated, more evolved...and thus the pieces
|
|
are more precious, to them, and to the Soul Hunters.
|
|
|
|
<p>
|
|
<li> No, there's really just the one Minbari religion, and the warrior
|
|
caste tends to follow it, but not lead it.
|
|
|
|
</ul>
|
|
|