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The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5
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Babylon 5 posts by JMS for Feb, 1992
This file includes a compilation of posts on GEnie by J. Michael
Straczynski in the Babylon 5 topic. The posts are copyright by JMS
(and compilation copyright is by GEnie).
************
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 230 Sat Feb 01, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 16:26 EST
Interesting stuff on the tech side, much to consider. I remain inclined
toward the solar collectors for several reasons: 1) They look boss. 2) The
first thing you have to learn in space is to not over-complicate things. The
sun is a constant, and unless it goes nova (in which case anything else is
irrelevant now anyway), it's a relatively safe bet for power. Set it up and
forget it. What matters is that it can do the job. 3) Good SF not only
looks to the future, but tries to send a message for the present as well.
And if we can emphasize this issue, all the better.
Trying to decide which new piece of info to let go now. Hmm...it'll
either be B5's second in command, or one of the ambassadors. Hmm....
jms
(P.S. And yes, I'm also inclined toward showing space silent. There are
ways of doing it and still making it dramatic.)
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 235 Sat Feb 01, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 22:01 EST
Well, then, maybe I'll do both. A little shorter than the last one
(which was SUPPOSED to be short itself, but once I get typing, I lose all
perspective).
As stated, Commander Jeffrey Sinclair is the titular head of BABYLON 5.
His concerns, though, tend to be more broad in scope...acting as the informal
representative of the Earth Alliance, dealing with questions of policy and
procedure, and keeping an eye on the Ambassadors.
As a result, the day-to-day operations of the station are handled by Vice-
Commander Laurel Takashima. (In case Sinclair is incapicated or off-station,
Laurel is also empowered to take his place on the Council and speak for the
TopE.A. Laurel can usually be found in the B5 Command and Control Room (also
referred to as the Observation Dome), where ships are coming and going,
keeping an eye on who's going where. All departments report directly to her,
and she is answerable only to Sinclair and Earth Central. If, as happens
early on in "The Gathering," a ship's crew refuses to submit to a weapons
search (a requirement for coming aboard B5), she has the authority to lock
them out. (To one complaining ambassador, she stands firm on this, though
noting, "I'll be happy to send them a fruit basket if it'll make you feel any
better. But other than that, they can sit out there for the next solar year
for all I care.")
She has considerable interaction with the ambassadors and others coming
aboard the station. All day-to-day operations are very much her purview.
Laurel is a rarity among the B5 crew, in that she is one of the few
actually born on Earth. (Sinclair was born on the Mars colony, for instance.)
Thus, she has strong roots on Homeworld, which gives her a perspective that's
quite important at times. She's tough, and smart, and resourceful (conning
one of the hydroponics guys into setting aside a couple of planters on the QT
to grow coffee beans...very much against policy, but if you report her, you
can't have any). She has a long-standing relationship with an off-world
mapper who works for the E.A., but is gone quite a lot of the time. She can
also take care of herself physically QUITE well.
On the other end of the spectrum is Ambassador Londo Mollari, of the
Centauri Republic. Londo is the most human of all the various ambassadors,
and there's some speculation that we might be a long forgotten outpost of the
Republic.
Of course, the only ones MAKING that assertion are Londo's people, who
have much to gain in trying to convince others of that.
For a thousand years, the Centauri Republic was a force to be reckoned
with. Like the English empire once upon a time, it held hundreds of planets
in its control. It was a great military power. But slowly, as can happen,
they grew content, and lazy, and gradually their own empire began to slip
between their fingers. A world deciding to go rogue was troublesome, to be
sure, but it's SO far away, and it's SUCH a bother to go take care of it, when
we can easily get the same things from other places...let them go. They'll
come crawling back sooner or later.
As a result, they are now down to a Republic that consists of barely a
dozen systems and thirty worlds.
It was, interestingly enough, the Centauri Republic that was Earth's
first contact with another major government. The CR was well in advance of
Earth science, and we all considered them a terrible power...an illusion they
hardly tried to set right. Trade agreements were set up, and we gained an
ASTONISHING amount of technical know-how in a very short time, letting us leap-
frog a hundred years of progress in a single year. They were most curious to
get cultural stuff in return...music, art, philosophy, literature..."native"
trinkets that could be resold for more money back on homeworld.
In the thirty or forty years since then, however, we've found out the
truth, that the CR is really on its last legs. And we've taken the technology
we've gotten and perfected it, and now the Earth Alliance is fast becoming one
of the dominant forces of this time. And the Centauri Republic is trying to
attach itself to us the way a ramora attaches itself to a shark...for
preservation, in this case.)
Laurel can usually be found in the B5 Command and Control Room (also
referred to as the Observation Dome), where ships are coming and going,
keeping an eye on who's going where. All departments report directly to her,
and she is answerable only to Sinclair and Earth Central. If, as happens
early on in "The Gathering," a ship's crew refuses to submit to a weapons
search (a requirement for coming aboard B5), she has the authority to lock
them out. (To one complaining ambassador, she stands firm on this, though
noting, "I'll be happy to send them a fruit basket if it'll make you feel any
better. But other than that, they can sit out there for the next solar year
for all I care.")
She has considerable interaction with the ambassadors and others coming
aboard the station. All day-to-day operations are very much her purview.
Laurel is a rarity among the B5 crew, in that she is one of the few
actually born on Earth. (Sinclair was born on the Mars colony, for instance.)
Thus, she has strong roots on Homeworld, which gives her a perspective that's
quite important at times. She's tough, and smart, and resourceful (conning
one of the hydroponics guys into setting aside a couple of planters on the QT
to grow coffee beans...very much against policy, but if you report her, you
can't have any). She has a long-standing relationship with an off-world
mapper who works for the E.A., but is gone quite a lot of the time. She can
also take care of herself physically QUITE well.
On the other end of the spectrum is Ambassador Londo Mollari, of the
Centauri Republic. Londo is the most human of all the various ambassadors,
and there's some speculation that we might be a long forgotten outpost of the
Republic.
Of course, the only ones MAKING that assertion are Londo's people, who
have much to gain in trying to convince others of that.
For a thousand years, the Centauri Republic was a force to be reckoned
with. Like the English empire once upon a time, it held hundreds of planets
in its control. It was a great military power. But slowly, as can happen,
they grew content, and lazy, and gradually their own empire began to slip
between their fingers. A world deciding to go rogue was troublesome, to be
sure, but it's SO far away, and it's SUCH a bother to go take care of it, when
we can easily get the same things from other places...let them go. They'll
come crawling back sooner or later.
As a result, they are now down to a Republic that consists of barely a
dozen systems and thirty worlds.
It was, interestingly enough, the Centauri Republic that was Earth's
first contact with another major government. The CR was well in advance of
Earth science, and we all considered them a terrible power...an illusion they
hardly tried to set right. Trade agreements were set up, and we gained an
ASTONISHING amount of technical know-how in a very short time, letting us leap-
frog a hundred years of progress in a single year. They were most curious to
get cultural stuff in return...music, art, philosophy, literature..."native"
trinkets that could be resold for more money back on homeworld.
In the thirty or forty years since then, however, we've found out the
truth, that the CR is really on its last legs. And we've taken the technology
we've gotten and perfected it, and now the Earth Alliance is fast becoming one
of the dominant forces of this time. And the Centauri Republic is trying to
attach itself to us the way a ramora attaches itself to a shark...for
preservation, in this case.
They are governed by an emperor, and the government works mainly through
personal and family influence. It's a very indulgent society, and Londo
reflects that. Overweight, prone to gambling constantly (null-pool is his
favorite), and fond of women and drinks, he understands his role and doesn't
try to push it. Like his Republic, he subsists on old stories and tales of
former glory, remarking -- one night, when drunk -- "my god, we've become a
tourist attraction. See the Great Fallen Centauri Republic, open nine to
five...Earth Time." He is, by turns, a comic figure, and a tragic figure.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 247 Sun Feb 02, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 03:57 EST
Those stations that agreed to carry B5 early on are all still
carrying the program, plus a bunch of other stations that've been lined
up subsequent to NATPE. A full list will be appended soonest.
The speculated-upon similarity to Japan was not unintentional.
Regarding sub-light speeds...we're working that out with the tech
crew. Actually, EVERYONE is getting in on that aspect. One design for
a B5 defensive ship (kept in a high-security hangar concealed within the
station just in case they might ever be needed...and they will...) runs
like this...and I emphasize this was just his speculation, but it's
kinda cool, whether or not it actuall gets used. (It also came with the
designer's sketch of the ship.)
The ship is the Northrodyne C31-03 "Patriot," suited for both deep
space and atmospheric flight.
POWERPLANT: 1 Messerschmitt Ram-scram 23,000 kg thrust turbo
2 Commonwealth hyperspace ion-warp drives
24 Jumo 500 kg C02 thrusters
PERFORMANCE max speed 10.75 C.P.H. (Light speed per hour)
stall speed minimum 400 K.P.H. on foils alone at 1 Earth
atmosphere sea level
Can achieve full-hover using Bokelman anti-grav
Max range fully loaded: 1200 parsecs
WEIGHT: Standard earth gravity: unloaded, 35,000 kg; loaded, 114,000 kg
DIMENSION: Length: 37 meters; Span: 43 meters; Height at max diameter:
8.43 meters
ARMAMENT: 8 antimatter lasers
18 "Blackhole" missiles with 1.5 megaton warheads
2 explosive projectile 85mm ruger spiral-feed cannons
4 "Reagan" class dumb-fire missiles
3 pulsed accellerator long-range missiles
CREW: 2, plus back-up crew for long-distance missions.
Again, that may not end up being what's actually used in the show, but
it's one of our speculations by some of the tech people. Kinda fun. One
other ship that's been designed is the Blohm Und Voss-IBM BV142 V493
"Nervenklau" class interceptor with ram-fusion turbos. (It's a smaller
ship than the "Patriot" class, made for speed and bite.)
Are we having fun, or what?
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 262 Sun Feb 02, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 17:37 EST
Whew, that's a lot of comments. Let me try and deal with the major
issues rather than point-by-point.
Re: sound in space...there's more than one way of doing that, and I think
I have an idea that will let me satisfy BOTH camps. I won't know if it
actually *works* until we get into a sound room with footage on screen, but
there may be a third alternative.
Re: the TNG "forehead" problem...here's what I think is a major point of
distinction between the two shows. TNG often becomes the Alien Of The Week
show. If you're going to have a guy come through the show just once, you tend
not to spend an awful lot of time on the prosthetics/appliances. On a TV
production schedule, there simply isn't that kind of time. So you compromise,
and come up with something that'll suffice...and the easiest thing to do is to
effect the area you will see most on the screen, the face or forehead. (You
could, I suppose, provide flippers instead of feet, but how often would you
see them in a shot?)
One of the interesting things about B5 is that, with some exceptions from
time to time, we'll be drawing most of our players from one or more of the
five different groups (four alien, one human). So we know, in advance, that
we're going to be using the same "look" many times during a given season.
Which means that we can spend a lot of time up front in designing more
elaborate appliances or prostheses since we'll be using them more often, thus
amortizing the cost and time and effort.
Londo is the most human of the bunch. They get progressively more
unusual as we go along. When we do feature someone not from one of the major
groups, we want to know about it well enough in advance that we can do it up
right. John Iacovelli, our production designer (from HONEY, I SHRUNK THE
KIDS) would love to experiment with some insectoid designs, with limbs that
move in the opposite way they're supposed to...to play with size in other
aliens, having some *substantially* taller or smaller than Earth-norm. And
from time to time, there will be some life-forms that you'll just see out of
the corner of your eye that'll be quite different.
You see, in TNG, if you have something REALLY bizarre on screen, you more
or less have to justify why it's there, and what it's doing there, and thus it
becomes a major plot point, and thus it has to be played by a human actor,
which brings you right back to the forehead problem. But on B5, *anything*
can pass through. Which gives us latitude to do things with mechanicals and
high-tech puppeteering. (Some of our guys have come over from the Henson
Creature Shop, with some *amazing* ideas.)
Once again, it all comes down to *advance planning*. Which has always in
my view been the one aspect lacking in 99% of all TV SF series. This show, as
reported, has taken us 4 years to get going, and believe me when I say that
that time has NOT been spent just sitting around.
Re: what I learned on my trips to conventions and appearing on WHY CAN'T
THEY GET IT RIGHT? panels...what I came away with was a general sense of
frustration from people who felt that in most cases, a show ends up being
either good SF and bad television, or good TV but bad SF, and why can't you
mix the two? They pointed to the lack of character conflict in TNG, noting
(correctly) that conflict is the core of ANY drama. They wondered --
repeatedly -- why it is that every time a decent concept comes along, someone
has to hobble it with kids or cute robots.
It was just a general sense of frustration that while SF in print (and to
SOME extent films) has grown up into adulthood, TV SF was still perceived AND
EXECUTED as though for kids, or without the grittiness or maturity of the work
you'd associate with Gibson or Sterling or Clarke. ST was, by and large, an
anomaly in that it treated SF with a modicum of respect. There's not been
much of that, the audience tended to feel.
Which made me all the more determined to try and bring SF into the
mainstream not by compromising the SF, but by -- as it were -- bringing the
mountain to Mohammed by incorporating elements that mainstream vieewers have
come to expect from non-SF series: adult characters with adult relationships,
sexual and otherwise; interpersonal conflict; marriages and divorces and
pregnancies and all the other elements that are the common coin of our shared
humanity. People who live in a world that, unlike the antiseptic Enterprise,
requires courage and struggle and hope and joy and effort, exactly as those
elements are required in our own lives.
As I think I stated once before LONG uptopic...my model on this is, in a
way, DRAGNET and HILL STREET BLUES. There was a time in the TV industry when
cop shows were viewed the same way SF shows are viewed now: of interest only
to people into police procedurals and mysteries, which was considered a very
small proportion of the audience. The along came DRAGNET, which for the first
time showed cops going on dates, having divorces, barbeques, fights...and that
show went through the roof because it fleshed out the characters (for that
time...yes, they're stiff and cardboard now, but at that time they were
revolutionary, and if you check your TV history, you will find that DRAGNET is
still considered the most successful cop show ever produced for TV). HILL
STREET BLUES was the final culmination of that process, a model from which
came shows like LA LAW and ST. ELSEWHERE and others.
There is absolutely NO reason on earth why that same process cannot apply
to SF. And that is what we are pledged to do on this show. I expect either
to succeed -- astonishingly -- or fail, just as astonishingly.
But there won't be a middle ground.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 275 Mon Feb 03, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 01:11 EST
Two quickies...on the tech of the "Patriot" ship...please, once again,
bear in mind that that was passed along mainly for the fun of it. The
designer who came up with it isn't a scientist, and was engaging in a bit of
"rubber science." The main thought there was the idea of a range of weaponry,
most of it extensions of either modern stuff (projectile weapons) and
futuristic stuff. BeLIEVE me, anything we finally come up with -- and it may
bear no resemblance to the ship discussed -- will go firmly through the hands
of the tech people who'll check and double-check for this stuff.
As to keeping around Laurel Takashima...believe me, I have every
intention of doing so. The reason Pilot was killed off in C.P. was due to the
actress's desire to take on some film roles and leave the show. So I decided,
"Okay, if we're going to lose a character, let's not wimp out and have her
transferred, let's kill her, but kill her in a dramatic way that changes not
only the characters, but the nature of the show itself." Which is why, when
she went, she took the whole base of operations of our main characters with
her. (Season Two would've been completely different from season one, with our
guys on the run, no permanent base of operations.)
The problem with episodic series is that, after a while, you know what
the parameters are. You know THIS character won't ever be killed, and THAT
base has got to remain, and THIS can't change. And you fall into a habit and
into regular expectations. I *love* to blow up those sorts of expectations.
Find the one thing that NO ONE thinks you're ever going to do in your
show...and do it. It keeps EVERYBODY on their toes. If you can tune in and
never know for sure what's going to happen, knowing that everyone and
everything is fair game, it makes the tension in the show far more real. The
reaction when Pilot/Jennifer Chase was killed off was astonishing...and when
the base was destroyed with her. I was at a con when it was shown, and one
person finally broke the stunned silence and said, "Jesus, they're not kidding
around, this IS a war." Which was exactly the right response.
How this will affect B5...wait and see.
And here's a little something to consider. Some have noted the location
thing...speculated on other aspects of the show...but much of what you need to
know about what will eventually happen in the course of the B5 story arc is
already available to you. In any decent desk encyclopedia.
What, you thought I pulled the name Babylon out of a hat? Let's just say
that there are going to be some interesting historical parallels....
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 276 Mon Feb 03, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 01:17 EST
Quick afterthought...considerable difference, isn't there, in the
discussion *here*, as opposed to the DS9 topic?
Personally, I find it *very* rewarding.
Oh, and I forgot one thing about Londo. He has a wife, his third,
actually, on Centauri Prime, and seven kids. And he would sooner hurl
himself into the sun than go anywhere near ANY of them.
jms
And then on the other hand, sometimes the BIGGEST surprises require the
most in planning...Hiroshima, Pearl Harbor and Normandy Beach being good
examples....
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 301 Tue Feb 04, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 02:54 EST
nic:
Thank you.
You have expressed your opinion. I have expressed mine. I will continue
to express my opinion, and you will continue to express your opinion. If it
makes you uncomfortable, you may want to Per this topic. This is after all a
matter of some importance to me, and you have no conception of the trauma
visited upon me by the events subsequent to December 1992. Alas, I am not a
vulcan, and can feel, and those feelings come out through this topic, which
is, in a way, an ongoing letter or conversation about what's happening right
now with the B5 topic.
If you don't like it, that's unfortunate, but there's nothing I can do
about that short of restricting my beliefs, and being less then honest in my
postings here, and I won't do that. (And by the way...if B5 is on a lineal
descent from TNG, then TNG is on a lineal descent from FORBIDDEN PLANET. And
just FYI, the genesis in my notes for B5 extends to 1986 and 1987, *before*
TNG went on the air.) Your estimation of the value of my work -- worth a
nickel or otherwise -- is interesting but ultimately irrelevant.
Apparently you are solidly in TNG's camp. That is fine, and good, and I
have no quarrel with that. SF television needs every possible support in
order to survive. That you may not want to hear something you don't like is
rather beyond my control; life is full of things we don't like to or want to
hear. Your statement that what's been said here is only "inflammatory BS" is,
in my view, insulting. Something that I don't want to hear...because I know
the situation from the inside. You do not. Period.
If being a TNG fan means that you must attack people, then that is most
unfortunate...since the very philosophy of IDIC means Infinite Diversity in
Infinite Combinations.
That includes the things you don't want to hear.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 313 Tue Feb 04, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 14:13 EST
nic, you persist in this notion that what's been said here is
unsubstantiated. Which parts? That B5 has been in development for years is a
matter of public record. (In fact, being the kinda hairpin I am, I've slipped
references to it all over the place...Soaron, if you're reading this, check
the episode of CAPTAIN POWER where Tank faces off with a guy from the same
genetic engineering facility as himself and note the name of the
center...check my novel OTHERSYDE where I slipped in a quick reference to B5
being on the air that night...plus the copies on file at the Guild and at
Warners and everywhere else.)
When was B5 announced? Check the trades. November 21st, several
articles appeared with the info. When was DS9 developed? That, too, is a
matter of both record and other information. Was B5 brought to Paramount?
Yes, it was, and I have the correspondence to prove it. Were some of the
development people at Paramount who read the B5 screenplay and saw the series
treatment and bible also involved in the DS9 development? It seems that this
is indeed the case. That's not unsubstantiated "bs" as you say, and I really
don't care what you think on that subject. All of that is a matter of record.
Were Pillar and Berman aware of B5 at any time? No. Of that I am also
confident. The only question in my mind is to what degree did the development
people steer them? One scenario is that they did not steer them at ALL...but
knowing of B5, and knowing how swell it would be if they could co-opt B5, if
Pillar and Berman came up with a space station on their own, they would likely
say nothing, even though they might be viewed as being under a moral
obligation to say something. Another scenario is that they gave direction to
the creative folks without telling them the origin of that direction.
There are several ways of dealing with this. One is to launch a major
suit with full powers of discovery. The result is that DS9 gets tied up for
months, maybe even years in litigation, and maybe the show doesn't go forward.
It also means hundreds of thousands of dollars spent by Warners and me and
others pursuing this...not to mention the sense of ill will that will fly back
and forth.
And while all options are still open, the general concensus for now seems
to be to live and let live. (I assume you want to see DS9, do you not? If
you'd like me to take this out of the realm of discussion and into the courts,
there's a better than even chance that we could kill it -- is that what you
want?) We are content to try and let the market decide which is the better
program...or allow both to continue on and on indefinitely, in the hope that
they will be sufficiently different that both can succeed. There is nothing
new in this information, I have posted EXACTLY the same in a public message to
Mike Okuda in 21/21.
That we have decided -- for the best interests of all -- for the time
being to take a mature, "let's move forward" approach does not mean that I
have to pretend nothing happened. Or shut my mouth about it. If there is any
(to use your term) winking and nudging going on, it's on the level of "Okay,
YOU (Paramount) know what happened, and *I* know what happened, but let's try
to be grownup about it for now," though I must say that the shapechanging
thing nearly tipped me back over the edge again. If there are no more major
similarities that crop up in the next few weeks or months, with luck we can
continue that way.
I've always believed that the best solution to any problem is being
forthright. I felt it proper for people to see the development process here,
and be aware of what the actual events were, and let them reach their own
conclusions. And, in part, this is to insure a complete record. Because one
probable result of silence is that B5 gets broadcast to an audience which
might be unaware of it, as movies tend to slip past more readily than series.
Then DS9 airs as a series. Then B5 airs as a series...and everybody thinks we
ripped off DS9.
Maybe you don't think it's important to establish which was here first.
I do. In the forty-plus years that television has been around, no one has
done a series on a space station/port of call. Now suddenly we have two
within two months of each other being announced.
So what do you want, nic? Do you want me to launch every legal missile
I've got in an effort to kill DS9? Because that's the only other alternative
that I've got to just talking about it...and on the question of
unsubstantiated bs, frankly, you're off base and I still find that insulting.
B5 has a paper trail four years long. And unless you have access to that --
as I do -- please refrain from spouting off about things you don't know.
Despite very strong feelings about this situation, I'm trying to be mature
about all this. Comments like yours just tempt me to say, "Okay, screw it,
you want substantiation? Let's party, let's get in the lawyers."
This is the topic for discussion of B5. In all its aspects. If you find
the conversation uncomfortable...there are other topics for you to explore.
Meanwhile, please try and refrain from characterizing my post as "bs". You
can't get any closer to the inside scoop on something like this than from the
creator/executive producer/writer.
I have adopted a live and let live attitude re: DS9. I will try and
adopt one toward you. Please don't cause me to regret either decision.
End of sermon.
Finally, to Ellen's request re: prior credits...I've worked in TV for
about ten years now...first in animation, on such programs as THE REAL
GHOSTBUSTERS, to live-action SF such as CAPTAIN POWER, and I was primary
writer and story editor on the syndicated TWILIGHT ZONE. I was writer and
story editor on JAKE AND THE FATMAN (or as we called it, THE LAME AND THE
HALT), and am currently on M,SW as writer/producer. I adapted THE STRANGE
CASE OF DR. JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE for Showtime (which received both Ace and
Writers Guild Award nominations for writing), wrote a new "V" miniseries which
will not be filmed for budgetary considerations, recently finished a
SF/adventure/comedy screenplay for Ivan Reitman, and have published two novels
and one anthology and numerous short stories. There's more beyond that, but
those are some of the highlights.
Sorry to have gone on so long with this. We now return you to your
regularly scheduled programming.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 319 Tue Feb 04, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 19:44 EST
But only with a condom.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 329 Tue Feb 04, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 23:05 EST
Are there Quayle-class dumbfire missiles? Probably. But those are for
export only....
And yes, to a question uptopic, that was me at the Brighton WorldCon
doing a presentation on TRGBs and CP. That was actually a lot of fun. I
still chuckle at some of the astonished reactions to "The Collect Call of
Cthulhu"....
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 338 Wed Feb 05, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 01:34 EST
Expect fewer posts from me over the next few days or so...I have to
finish the current draft of "The Gathering" by Friday (Monday latest) so we
can start serious prep. And just FYI...watch for news items next week,
between Wednesday and Friday. There's going to be a big press conference in
NY with the Big Guns from the studio and the new network. Don't know at this
point if I'll be there or not, it depends on my time here and imminent
deadlines. Things are starting to heat up.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 356 Thu Feb 06, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 02:56 EST
Taking a brief break (only 22 more pages to go....):
What I have in mind is kind of a synthesis of the two approaches to
storytelling in TV. Each episode is crafted such that it can stand on
its own. But the totality of each episode adds up over time into a story
arc of its own.
The best way to think of it, I've found, is the novel comparison.
Each year of the series (should this last that long) is one "chapter" in
the story. (The 2-hour movie is basically a prologue.) As a novel
writer, I know that major plot changes must take place at the end of
each chapter. And that's how the series will be structured.
For instance, and let me state unequivocally that THIS IS NOT GOING
TO BE USED, BOYS AND GIRLS, THIS IS FOR ILLUSTRATION PURPOSES ***ONLY***,
Year/Chapter One grounds us in the series and characters with minimal
changes, but we begin layering in aspects of certain mysteries that we
want to develop further. Year/Chapter Two takes that assumption and turns
it around as we suddenly discover that, say, two governments we THOUGHT
were deadly enemies are in fact allies, and suddenly everything's up for
grabs. Year/Chapter Three ups the ante with the threat of, or possibly
the reality of war...and the death of one major character. By now, one
character we thought was a minor character has suddenly become a MAJOR
character...and the Major Character from before is undergoing significant
changes a la Joseph Campbell. And so on. That's the *kind* of thing you
can do with a show that presents individual stories but which evolves
over time into something unusual.
And, of course, there's all that swooshing to deal with....
~~~~~~~~~
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 376 Fri Feb 07, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 02:58 EST
I hope to post a full list of stations in the next 7-10 days.
Re: the sound-in-space question...like I said, I think I can satisfy both
camps. I won't know for sure until I get some footage and can get into a
sound room and start playing around with some ideas, but I *think* it'll work.
Ten pages to go....
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 384 Fri Feb 07, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 18:18 EST
it around as we suddenly discover that, say, two governments we THOUGHT
were deadly enemies are in fact allies, and suddenly everything's up for
grabs. Year/Chapter Three ups the ante with the threat of, or possibly
the reality of war...and the death of one major character. By now, one
character we thought was a minor character has suddenly become a MAJOR
character...and the Major Character from before is undergoing significant
changes a la Joseph Campbell. And so on. That's the *kind* of thing you
can do with a show that presents individual stories but which evolves
over time into something unusual.
And, of course, there's all that swooshing to deal with....
~~~~~~~~~
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 376 Fri Feb 07, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 02:58 EST
I hope to post a full list of stations in the next 7-10 days.
Re: the sound-in-space question...like I said, I think I can satisfy both
camps. I won't know for sure until I get some footage and can get into a
sound room and start playing around with some ideas, but I *think* it'll work.
Ten pages to go....
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 384 Fri Feb 07, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 18:18 EST
For those who were asking about the neeperish aspects of the show....
BABYLON 5 will utilize as much state of the art EFX as possible. It
will combine mattes, live-action, miniatures and computer graphics imagery in
the Toaster environment using its video frame grabbing capability. There will
be three massive Amiga workstations with multi- gigabyte capability, rendering
simultaneously via an Ethernet network, as well as a Macintosh II, which will
run Adope Photoshop for complex texture map creation. The Lightwave 3D
software program will also be used.
The result will be sophisticated texture maps, and realistic looking
ships and objects with streaking, tinting and defects. All objects rendered
will maintain an equal 1:1 ratio even between objects of differing size and
mass and speed. The beauty pass and the matte pass will both be rendered in
the Toaster/Lightwave environment, then combined with live action via a
Quantel Harry (whatever the hell THAT is). The result will be such
capabilities as that of moving from 50 kilometers away from B5 to within 10
yards, all in one shot -- which would be impossible using models.
I understand *most* of what I've just typed here. Our tech guys provided
me with this. I'm now going to lay down for a while....
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 393 Sat Feb 08, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 00:05 EST
There's some talk of novelizing the V 2-hour miniseries script, and
there's a leading SF writer interested in the job, but right now it's ONLY
talk, and I can't comment further. As for cons in the northeast, yes, there
are some plans for that, but nothing yet concrete enough to announce here.
Will advise.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 396 Sat Feb 08, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 04:20 EST
By that do you mean who is the casting director, who makes
recommendations, or the ones who actually *decide*? If the former, we haven't
settled on a specific person yet, though we have several to choose from. If
the latter, that would be me and my co-exec producer.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 402 Sun Feb 09, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 00:58 EST
David: thanks! That'll help.
Samuel: (sly smile) Then you may have some idea of the direction I have
in mind. We're gonna have fun, fun, fun.
Well, tonight I typed FADE OUT on "The Gathering" screenplay, which after
being revised SIGNIFICANTLY to catch up on some changing technologies and some
improvements in my own writing since I originally wrote it is in many ways a
whole new script. The story is essentially the same, but the characters have
grown considerably, there's more humor in places, more action in other
places...it's way cool. (And I dropped the idea, in my original screenplay,
of a character who's an actual shape-changer because a) I found a better way
of handling a particular plot point, and b) when Warner Bros. did the focus
group study on B5, which at that point included the shape-changer, the UNIFORM
reaction from the group -- especially now, after the Michael Jackson shape-
changing, and that technology becoming SO commonplace -- was that it was a
dumbness, and why would ANYONE want to do that since it's been done so much
now, especially in TERMINATOR 2?
(I agree. They're right. Why would any show want to include a shape-
changer on a regular basis now that the technology has been SO over-exposed?
Heh, heh....)
Anyway: I'm very pleased with the script. It's a little wordy in places -
- I always over-write -- and at 113 pages it'll have to be cut back a little
for time, given the requirements of TV, but overall I'm happy with it. It
goes in to the studio on Monday. I'll probably keep revising right through
shooting, as new ideas come to me, though it'll all have to be character
stuff; once the script's in, the effects stuff will have to be locked down in
order to get it done in time.
Got it done just in time, too...the carpal tunnel syndrome is starting to
flare up again, I think I'm falling prey to the flu that's going around, and I
have to start the next batch of M,SW scripts this coming week, as well as
finish (AT LAST) the changes to the writing book, long overdue. And next
week, finally, I get my new computer system which should really help my output
climb out of the doldrums....
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 405 Sun Feb 09, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 01:25 EST
Make *A* backup? Izz you craaaaaazy? Three at least!
Mentioning Amiga reminds me...did I mention that it looks like we'll be
featured in an article in COMPUTE? Also, POST magazine (which is all about
post-production in TV) started off doing an article about how they do these
neat effects in A Certain Other SF Show. Then they backtracked, heard about
B5. Talked to our guys. And now the slant seems to be, "Hey, why can't a
certain other show do EFX like B5 is gonna do? Huh? Howcum?"
I have nothing to do with this, folks. Ain't feeding nothing, ain't
encouraging nothing, I only just heard about it myself.
There's *supposedly* an article for STARLOG in the works, but I've not
heard much lately on that score. As additional stories start coming out, I'll
advise.
Meanwhile, a request. This coming Thursday/Friday there should be a fair
amount of news coverage regarding the Warners Consortium and thed -- make that
THE -- shows they'll be doing, including B5. If you come across any of these
couldja let me know? We haven't got a clipping service yet. Every person
who sends me an article in which B5 is mentioned will get a FREE transparent
sticker with the *new* B5 logo in living color. (Obviously, this only applies
to the first of any one paper that arrives...ten zillion copies of the DETROIT
FREE PRESS ain't gonna do it.) Put it in your window, on your car...baffle
and dazzle (or daffle and bazzle) your friends! Make it a conversation piece!
A quick and easy icebreaker at bars, where it will help you pick up babes!
(Or guys.)
Looking into the B5 patches and t-shirts, btw. Will announce when we've
made a decision. (Translation: when either WB or Me kicks loose some dough.)
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 408 Sun Feb 09, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 03:38 EST
Luis: thanks, actually I get the major papers -- AP, UPI, Reuters, and
others -- via That Other CIStem. My main interest is in any local papers that
might pick up on the story.
Ratz: If I were prudent, I would never have gotten into teevee.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 416 Sun Feb 09, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 16:54 EST
Haven't checked out that keyboard yet, but may look into it.
Definitely meant original articles, not wire-copy relays. If you find
one, drop me a note in E-mail and I'll send along the address. I'd post it
here, but the address will vary depending on where I can be reached at any
given time.
As for the computer...it's a custom job and will arrive already set up,
so there won't be nearly the same level of tinkering going on, though there
will be some of that inevitably.
Looks like I've definitely been blindsided by the flu. Usually I'm
pretty immune, but the workload recently, and not much sleep, has probably cut
down the defenses. Taking it easy today, just doing the B5 revisions a little
at a time (meaning cuts and trims and the like) in preparation for delivery
tomorrow.
Hmmm....I began this message with something specific in mind that I
wanted to mention...and it just fell out of my head and rolled under the desk.
Must be time for sudafed....
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 422 Mon Feb 10, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 00:36 EST
Finished with the final cuts/revisions. Hah! Done!
To answer Drumhead's question above...here is our Official Status: We
*do* have a go on the series, contingent upon only one thing: bringing the 2-
hour movie in on budget. The plan was to approve 3 series for the consortium.
TIME TRAX and the new KUNG FU, being more easily grasped and not as EFX
oriented, were given Go's for series. When we showed them what we had in
mind, they just didn't believe that we could do it. My philosophy has always
been the same: let me put my money where my mouth is. We'll do the movie, and
prove our point. When that's done, we get the full pickup.
The ratings, it turns out, aren't even that important since, because it's
a new consortium, they know that EVERYTHING they put on is going to be low-
rated, just as Fox was in the beginning. As one exec put it, "You have a Go
for series if you're on budget and in focus."
We can do both.
Which is why Warners has decided (as will be announced formally next
week) to make BABYLON 5 their *flagship* program, the first program to be
broadcast via the consortium. B5, "The Gathering," will air late November
(the 17th), months ahead of everything else. In a meeting at Warners Friday
afternoon, plans are already being put into effect regarding locking down the
cast for the series, pattern budgets, and other things that you don't even
BEGIN to consider until you're approved for series.
Are we *officially* approved for the movie? Yes. Are we *unofficially*
approved for the series? Yes. It's a question of what you can announce,
when, and our showing what we can do. BABYLON 5 was the *only* program that
every single member station in the consortium was able to agree that they
wanted as a series, the other two coming with some dissension.
There will be a series. Count on it.
Which is why all the WB publicity material does not describe "The
Gathering" as a pilot, rather as a "debut." The difference is substantial.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 425 Mon Feb 10, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 04:53 EST
Save the wahoos for a while. We still have to make the movie.
jm(one crisis at a time)s
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 429 Mon Feb 10, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 20:20 EST
I don't think they've yet finalized what it's going to be called, the
working name is the Warner Bros. Consortium...whether that in time becomes the
Warners Network is anybody's guess.
Nope. Wasn't at Woodstock. But often I'm as confused as though I had
been.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 433 Tue Feb 11, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 02:43 EST
No, Arne, that was my evil twin Sparky.
Mike: yes, it *is* a new network, like Fox, so you're now officially very
surprised. The thing will go on line, as did Fox, with one night of NEW
programs per week...in this case, Tuesday nights. The plan then is to add one
new night per year, again as Fox did. This means that programs will air at
the same times across the country, same as Fox.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 443 Tue Feb 11, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 16:04 EST
I'm saddened. I'd only corresponded with Eric here a few times, but he
seemed always to be enthusiastic and friendly and cordial.
It's a double shame when decent people like Eric leave us, and creeps
like Reagan go on, and on, and on like some sort of demented Energizer bunny.
Very sad.
jms
(Yes, we do have a NYC station, but the list's at home.)
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 155 Wed Feb 12, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 13:37 EST
Brook...he'd mentioned Conduit to me, but hadn't yet gotten around to
sending along anything specific. Would still be interested in taking a look
and seeing what can be done. Send me the info via Universal. If you don't
have the address, let me know and I'll send it along email.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 167 Thu Feb 13, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 14:12 EST
Well, actually, on reflection, there's no reason why I can't give my
office address here. That's ME, at MURDER, SHE WROTE, Universal Studios, 100
Universal City Plaza, Building 422, Room 203, Universal City, CA
91608.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 173 Fri Feb 14, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 15:11 EST
Well, the big news took several forms, and I suppose I should've
clarified that the news was more news to folks not on this system. In large
part, it referred to the big conference this week in NYC held to formally
announce that B5 and other Warners/Consortium projects are now going into full-
fledged production, and to formally announce the air date of B5 "The
Gathering," of November 17th. (There's also some growing pressure to get the
series to follow up and running a little quicker than we'd
anticipated...mainly because it becomes problematic to hold actors for too
long on option.)
Good thought on the guns/energy weapons. I want weapons of that sort to
have a REALLY lethal look and sound and feel. I liked the heft of the guns in
ALIENS, for instance. I'm tentatively calling the guns PPGs, for Phased
Plasma Guns, but that may change. Nasty suckers, but you have to be careful,
since you're in an enclosed space.
Power supply on my current computer at home blew last night, so I have
to get another one, and that puts me back on some stuff. (Logging on via
another computer at work.) Pain in the butt. Ah, well.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 217 Wed Feb 19, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 15:08 EST
YAAAGGHHH! (There, I feel much better now...it's like holding one's
breath for a long time.)
The home computer is still out, and I'm thus logging on from work.
(Stayed home all day Tuesday for the power unit to come in FedEx, and it
didn't.) Some quickies while I'm here:
1) Yes, we *do* have more stations on line, though alas I've left the
list at home. I know we've added Philadelphia and Detroit and Atlanta and a
bunch of others, but which ones in particular will have to wait until I can
grab the list from home and bring it here, or get my home computer on-line
with GEnie again. (I don't know what the problem was, except that the
internal modem on my Zeos couldn't get past the U#: request without giving me
a No Carrier response, even *with* the right protocols, parities and the
rest.)
2) GOOD thoughts about the weapons. I *like* the thunderclap idea.
Will pass this on to the tech boys.
3) Regarding using one or two ST actors on the show...for starters, we're
not talking about regular parts. One or two guest spots in a year or so. And
let us all remember that an actor's an actor, and it seems a shame to waste
good actors becaues they've gotten typecast from another series. That's been
one of the injustices to come out of ST's success, so many good actors found
it hard to get work afterward. (If you haven't seen George Takai in
PRISONERS OF THE SUN, you've missed something really wonderful.) In
addition...this is kind of a way for Certain People to show their feeling that
B5 is a better legacy and recipient of the ST fan's attention than other
stuff. Which will annoy a studio out there no end.
I'll probably post the new stations tomorrow sometime.
Meanwhile, things continue to heat up. Met with the tech boys on Friday
to review the script, and they had some WONDERFUL ideas on how to make this
even bigger than I'd thought was possible in terms of EFX and some of the
action planned for the movie. I'm now in the process of incorporating all of
that into the script, which will now be turned in around next Monday, computer
hassles permitting. Will also be at the Gallifrey convention at the LA
Airport Hilton this Saturday to do a B5 presentation (1-2:30).
There's some growing interest and pressure from some involved at the
studio/station syndicate level to move faster on the series than was first
discussed. This bodes well. We're also fleshing out parts of the B5 station
itself from a production standpoing, incorporating as many valid technological
issues as we can. One of the problems we encountered with a station that uses
centrifugal force to create gravity is that you can't have any windows at
waist level, since space is below your feet. Well, our production whiz Ron
Thornton came up with a spiffy solution to that which is gonna look neat.
Anyway, just a note to let you know that all is proceeding apace, and
starting to gather momentum. It's a strange feeling to be in the position of
talking about something, of being one of maybe a handful of people who even
know the NAME of what you're proposing...and suddenly there are quite
literally dozens of people on the phone, and in meetings, talking about it,
calling YOU about it, coming in with design elements and publicity strategies
and the like...you keep fighting the urge to say, "But how did YOU know about
that? That's just something I've created in my head." It's both rewarding
and constantly surprising.
More info as I can log on here to convey it.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 223 Thu Feb 20, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 01:09 EST
Eric: we have to find you a hobby....
Well, boys and girls, Today I Yam a Man. I yanked out the power supply
on the old trusty Northgate all by my own self, put in the new one, replugged
the ten zillion wires...and it's up and running. Didn't even have to bug the
guys at Northgate to do it via phone.
And so, with no further ado, a list of some of the additional TV stations
that've signed on to carry the B5 movie, and subsequently, Mojo willing and
the crick don't rise, the series:
WPHL Philadelphia; WSBK Boston; WXON Detroit; WATL Atlanta; WSTW Seattle;
KDVR Denver; WOFL Orlando; WTTV Indianapolis; and WVTV Milwaukee. The only
NY station that we have to date, that I *know* of, at least (meaning they
might've added another and not told me yet) is WWOR.
More as I get the completed lists.
Meanwhile...I'M BACK ON LINE...and woe to the wicked!
jms
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Category 18, Topic 22
Message 225 Thu Feb 20, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 03:15 EST
Will look into Memphis and get back to you. Meanwhile, I appreciate the
invitation, but it looks like MidSouthCon is out for the time being, due to
other committments. Perhaps next time, once we're up and running....
jms
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Category 18, Topic 22
Message 232 Thu Feb 20, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 16:31 EST
Steve...just curious, what's the scuttlebutt there about the project?
I'm interested to know what the stations are hearing, vs. what we're trying
to get across.
Rick: we won't be shooting on the Warners lot, but rather off the lot.
(More and more shows are doing this now because of the HUGE fees involved --
overhead and the like -- in shooting on the lot. We're now in the process of
scouting out some other locations. Since the show is basically a park-and-
lock, mainly interiors, you can literally get a large warehouse, gut it, and
build your stages there. (And sometimes you can do this and get a LARGER
facility, overall, than what you could get at a studio, with the competition
there for large stages.)
What's also good about shooting off the lot is that, once the movie is
finished, if we're on the lot we'd have to strike the set, do a fold and hold,
then put it all back up again for the series. The studio can't afford to let
a soundstage remain dormant for very long. Here, however, we can just leave
the sets standing as long as required.
Re: slug or projectile-type weapons of the needler form...the only
problem with those is that if you have to use them on a person, you basically
shred them to itsy, bitsy pieces...which may be a bit much for television.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 239 Thu Feb 20, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 23:02 EST
Marty: KBHK will carry B5 in San Francisco.
Steve: We begin rolling film on the B5 movie on June 1st, and we wrap on
June 26th, after which we go into post-production. The movie airs November
17th, and the series has several windows in terms of how quickly it goes after
that...it could begin as early as the spring, or later in the summer. We have
to move *fairly* quickly because the actors' contracts will let us hold them
on option for up to 9 months after PRODUCTION is finished, not after the
broadcast. So in theory, we should have to begin the series no later than the
following February...but that's still open to several factors.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 254 Fri Feb 21, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 23:13 EST
For most of the stuff, we'll be shooting and editing on film, though when
we have EFX shots, especially when using an overlay of live action, then we'll
naturally have to integrate tape into this.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 259 Sat Feb 22, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 02:50 EST
Just a reminder to those in the L.A. area...I'll be doing a B5
presentation at Gallifrey 3 at the L.A.X. Hilton from 1-2:30 in Pacific
Ballroom B on Saturady afternoon the 22nd. Should start hitting the out-of-
state cons in March or thereabouts.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 283 Sun Feb 23, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 03:15 EST
Any station can potentially carry B5. Some of those who have signed are,
in fact, part of the Fox network. The lines between networks and syndication
are growing blurrier by the day.
Gave the B5 presentation today to a modest group at Gallifrey Three
convention here in town. Went pretty well. My problem is that as I go
through the artwork and character stuff, I forget to mention stuff like -- oh -
- the airdate, which station is going to be carrying it, that sort of stuff.
Tomorrow, with luck, my new computer system arrives. Way cool.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 298 Wed Feb 26, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 00:59 EST
Figures. Because we're starting with a movie, we tend to get lost in the
shuffle. Regarding the tape...the snow vehicle ain't part of B5; if the space
ship you mention is beside a rocky planetoid, then yes, that's ours...if not,
it ain't.
jms
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Category 18, Topic 22
Message 307 Thu Feb 27, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 00:45 EST
It's pro forma never to announce more than one phase at a time, so that's
why they're concentrating on the movie in terms of PR. You don't start
flogging the series until you're in production...just as they didn't start
flogging the movie until we hit a point of beginning preproduction, with a
firm airdate.
No, drat it, my new computer didn't arrive Saturday. The guy who's
building it for me was delayed over the weekend out of state. Promised to
have it in for me this weekend. I learned that the system I designed for him
to build for me is essentially identical to the system being used by the
International Bank of Japan.
Turned in the next version of the B5 script, with the new Bigger And
Better final scene...boy, if this looks *half* as big on screen as we think it
might, it's gonna be a hoot. May have some good news to announce soon
regarding a big article in a certain magazine...will advise.
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 313 Fri Feb 28, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 03:57 EST
...good heavens, I'm quoted re: TNG? Where? How? And where was the
"blight upon the earth" comment? I know I was interviewed by some paper or
other about that, but for the life of me I can't recall which.
Well, I never said I was subtle....
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 315 Fri Feb 28, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 13:36 EST
Oh, okay, THAT article. I thought since it was a while ago that it
wasn't the one mentioned, but rather something new. Okay, thanks.
And now for something completely stupid....
While my 386 was down and I was trying to log onto GEnie using my laptop,
if y'all recall, I couldn't get on. FINALLY realized that it was because I'd
lately changed my password, put it on the macro for my main computer and
hadn't changed the one on the notebook...so I was trying to log on under the
old password.
Sigh...I sometimes I think I haven't got the brains god gave a
doorknob....
jms
------------
Category 18, Topic 22
Message 324 Sat Feb 29, 1992
STRACZYNSKI at 04:14 EST
No, those times aren't accurate. Our *firm* airdate for the movie is
November 17, 1992. That has been agreed upon by all parties, and was part of
the announcement in NY the other week. Which means some of the sales guys
either aren't getting the latest info, or something's getting distorted/lost
in the translation. I'll double back with the Warners distribution people to
look into this.
We're looking into various forms of making the image of the show
technologically different, and some 3D aspect has been considered. The
technology is there now for some fairly subtle stuff that doesn't require
glasses or anything of the sort. Although the movie is too early, we're
giving some thought to shooting the series for HDTV, but again that's well
down the road.
jms
------------