Babylon 5 posts by JMS for July 1-16, 1994 This file includes a compilation of posts on GEnie by J. Michael Straczynski in the Babylon 5 category. The posts are copyright by JMS (and compilation copyright is by GEnie). ************ Topic 1 Mon Oct 26, 1992 SF-MARSHALL [Dave ] at 18:50 EST Sub: Babylon 5 - The Series (Non-Spoiler) Welcome to the Babylon 5 category and main topic for the new series. Here is the place for all general information on the series. Topic 2 is the location for SPOILERS. And please, NO STORY IDEAS are to be posted either. 775 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 617 Wed Jul 06, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 02:22 EDT Whether or not Babylon 5 survives past a second season...kinda depends on the *ratings* in the second season, and we're not *in* the second season yet. Many shows tend to take a while to find their audience; the first season or two of "Picket Fences" was pretty much in the toilet, ratings-wise. But it grew. As for the recent batch of ratings...yeah, we've been clobbered by 1) the NBA playoffs and finals, 2) OJ a little, and 3) the fact that this last month has been all reruns. EVERY syndicated drama show has gotten clobbered this past week in particular, and this month in general due to the basketball games. We always do much better when (big surprise), we show new episodes. I imagine that our ratings will go back up again when we start showing new ones this week, and now that the NBA games are over, and stations stop bumping, delaying, or getting rolled over by other stations. Re: Michael York...there were some unofficial conversations with York, but nothing has ever come of them. This is ONLY a rumor, and does not have any likelihood at this time of being anything more than a rumor. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 618 Wed Jul 06, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 02:58 EDT BTW...can anyone here tell me *who* said this about York? All I can determine is that *someone* announced this, and I would like to know who, specifically, to decapitate. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 628 Thu Jul 07, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:57 EDT To the best of my knowledge, reruns will still continue after we've finished with new episodes for this season, and will be interspersed in second season, so there will be plenty of chances to catch up. BTW, for those who saw the promo for "Eyes" at the end of "Grail," I have *no* idea what it has to do with the episode. Sometimes they "enhance" the story to make it promote-able...but I think this time they "enhanced" it right into a parallel dimension.... jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 637 Thu Jul 07, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 23:27 EDT Creation has licensed some stuff...a few shirts, and a mug, maybe some photos, I think that's about it. And we hope to get Harlan's "Demon" crossover script this season. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 653 Sat Jul 09, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 01:14 EDT Booj'...thanks. Re: audio...for the *most* part, there won't be a difference in the reruns, though there will be a marked difference in the video release of episodes, when that happens. What happened was this: we went into this using the full dynamic range of available audio. Right to the edge of the red line. Just one problem...many of the stations, and the uplink facility, use audio limiters, which crunches down the audio if it goes too far. It took us a while to find out that this was the source of the problem, and we mixed the last few episodes coming in just a few decibels under the point where the automatic clamping kicked in. We'll keep to this in future. Video releases won't have this problem. What can I say...I'm a rock'n'roll kinda guy...I like stuff *loud*. CGI is generally much faster than models. I have in my hands the major CGI sequences from our first episode of year two, and we haven't even started *shooting* yet. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 654 Sat Jul 09, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 01:32 EDT PS...for those in the LA area, and who enjoyed the excerpts of Norman Corwin's work...two of his radio dramas will be performed at the Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel, in their theater, on July 13th at 1 or 1:30. Norman will be directing the performance (I think lunch is included). Expect some celebrities in the cast. The two radio dramas are "The Strange Affliction" and "My Client Curly." jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 664 Sat Jul 09, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 20:12 EDT The teasers and promos are put together by the Warner Bros. marketing and promotions department. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 678 Sun Jul 10, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 18:07 EDT At one time we were working out what the time-reference would be on B5. One of the early things we talked about were cycles, but in fairly short order I decided against it because it didn't seem to mean much. But this was, sadly, after "Grail" had been produced, and we couldn't dub over the cycle references with anything else, so it stayed. It won't be appearing anywhere else henceforth. One of our few continuity glitches. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 682 Mon Jul 11, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 00:54 EDT Okay, Ms. Smartypants, then what does "cycles" MEAN? If it means cycles of the station, it cycles once every minute to maintain 1g. So 300 cycles is only 300 minutes. Your serve. BTW...it comes to my attention that Mark Altman was going on today at a Creation Convention in Glendale CA about how O'Hare was replaced because of negative comments made about him here on GEnie. Okay...now...you're a cute bunch, especially in the aggregate, and I like you a lot, but frankly all of us here don't even amount to s (a) squiggle...even *one percent* of a squiggle...on the Neilsen charts. Though I respect Mark Altman, that was a boneheaded mistake on his part. Simply ain't true. And if he's *going* to say stuff like that, you'd think that maybe he'd call me first to verify this stuff before launching it out there. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 697 Mon Jul 11, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 23:55 EDT Apparently a few places are timeshifting B5 and KF into each other's timeslots in order to see if the numbers vary; there's some thought that B5 is more of a 9:00 show than an 8:00 show. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 701 Tue Jul 12, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 00:39 EDT CAll the Writers Guild, and find out how much a copy of their Journal costs. It lists the "contact person" for each show. If that show isn't listed, pick the story editor. A letter is your way in, but do NOT include a synopsis. State that the script is finished, that you would like to submit it (if not through an agent, then using a release form of their choice) for their perusal. After that, it's up to them. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 704 Tue Jul 12, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:00 EDT No, the information/rumor was that York *had* been selected, and it came much earlier than Westercon, at a convention in the northeast. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 735 Fri Jul 15, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 16:01 EDT Bruce; thanks. A brief aside...every so often, somebody asks me what the difference is between B5 and ST (aside from, like, everything). Here's one element that I think is noteworthy, and of which I'm fairly proud. We don't do gang credits here. Where a writer writes an episode, you see ONLY that writer's name. If DC Fontana writes a script, she gets the credit for it. You don't see three names on the story, two or three names on the script. One of the injustices in Hollywood is the credit system. When you're on staff, you get a salary plus fees for the scripts you write. When you are a freelancer, you get only the script fees, and the residuals produced by reruns of that script. The more staffers add their names to the script, they cut deeper into the residuals, until the freelancer gets very little, if anything, really. My feeling is, look, we're already getting a salary, why dig into the freelancer's pocket as well? Consequently, we don't arbitrate credit on B5 scripts, regardless of any rewriting that gets done. We simply don't do it. This is something I feel strongly about. In all the series I've story edited, I think I've only requested (and been granted by WGA arbitration) shared credit on maybe 4-5 scripts (out of 200+ that I've edited), and there only because they were *very* extreme or unusual situations. We try and respect all members of our team, including and especially our writers. They get sole credit on scripts. They generally get the chance to do their own revisions (time permitting). They are not only welcome on the set, they are invited and encouraged to come. If the director has a question on set, and I'm not availble, they go to the original writer. (At the other show, freelancers are generally not allowed on set, and even staff writers are discouraged from going there.) It's a small area, really, and it doesn't win us even one additional point in the ratings, but it's something that pleases me, so I thought I'd mention it. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 745 Fri Jul 15, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 23:21 EDT One other reason the producer credits are out of the way fast is that we don't have a big staff of writer/producers, like many other shows. There's me, my story editor Larry...and that's all. Many shows have anywhere from 4-7 staffers. I like lean staffs. Re: merchandising...the concensus at Shore Leave is, of course, breathtakingly inaccurate. WB doesn't have to "invest" anything for any merchandising to be done; that's done by those who license the show. As of this writing, there are basically about a dozen B5 licensees, and I am informed that there are about another dozen or so currently in the process of negotiation. I mean, jeez...we've got a comic from DC, novels from Dell, comics from Cardz, shirts, mugs, keychains from Creation and others, a CD-ROM from Compton's...what the hell more do they want? No, B5 is not a ***MAJOR FRANCHISE*** like ST with ten zillion licensees, and I don't *want* it to be that, and hope it never *becomes* that. As it is, there is more licensing committed to this show than to *any* of the other live-action Warners series, with the possible exception of Lois and Clark. And, as stated, I resisted licensing during year one to keep our focus on the story (as did the creator of Calvin and Hobbes for the first year or two). It amazes me how a group of people can look at the licensing of one show on less than a year, compare it to the licensing of a show on for 25 years in one form or anther, and decide because it's less that somehow Warners doesn't want to "invest" in the show, turning this into a negative. Well, I guess if people gotta find something to pick at, they may as well make up stuff as anything else. (Like the bunch of folks in Tennessee who just sent a petition to the B5 offices protesting the firing of me, Harlan, and all the other writers on the show, and the total recasting of the series.) jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 752 Sat Jul 16, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 01:59 EDT The first batch of mugs are from (you'll pardon the expression) Creation. Currently about 2/3rds finished writing a second-season ep called "Revelations," and though I've written and commissioned others already, this one's sizing up to be a major ass-kicker from a story perspective. Definitely the flip-side of "Chrysalis." Some really, really nice stuff. The hardest part is always writing Kosh, because you have to be very careful how much you use him, and what he says. Too much and he loses his sense of mystery, and you don't want him spouting fortune-cookie type aphorisms. He has a very deliberate way of speaking in which everything, every smallest nuance and inflection means something, but sometimes not what it appears to mean, or comes at it from a very different angle than normal conversation. So I go as minimalist as possible, to get the meaning down to the smallest number of words possible. And in one scene, one of only two he appears in, I got him down to *one word*, and that one word -- and it's a totally inoffensive, neutral word on its own terms -- should scare the hell out of *everybody*. Ah loves this show.... jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 755 Sat Jul 16, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:22 EDT Telepaths are the ultimate minority, and when it comes to the use of their talents, and the protection of the rights of the hysterical majority, their rights don't mean a whole hell of a lot. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 1 Message 773 Sat Jul 16, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 18:18 EDT Yes, Mary Jo is Christian Slater's mom. She keeps nudging us about an appearance, since he loves SF. We'll see. And also correct...the majority of freelance scripts we commission don't tend to need a lot of revision. Certainly not after the first go round. DC's first script needed a bit of work, but that was mainly because she was still feeling her way around the characters and the show. Her second script came in almost letter perfect; move around a few commas and that's about it. And her outline for her next script, for season two, is very cool. Funny story. Saw Ed Wasser ("Morden") the other day, and asked him if he'd had any reaction to his first appearance on the show. Just one, he said. He was in a florist shop, picking out some stuff for a friend who was sick. The proprieter came over, asked, "What do you want?" Ed sorta mumbled about wanting some flowers. "What do you want?" the owner asked again. Ed -- still not getting it -- said he was looking for some nice stuff for a friend who was sick. "Yes, but what do you *want*?" the owner asked. At which point Ed finally twigged to what was going on. He said afterward that it really *is* an unnerving approach, which was kinda the point. Of course, the owner then added that he thought the scene was from DS9, but what the hell, it's an imperfect universe. jms ------------ ************ Topic 2 Wed Nov 20, 1991 STARR [Arne] at 19:41 EST Sub: Babylon 5 -- The Series!! >>SPOILERS<< Babylon 5 offically became a series on May 28 '93. There will be 22 hour eps for season one (in addition to the pilot). Airs Wednesdays at 8PM in most places starting Jan. 26 '94. This is the SPOILER topic where anything goes. 651 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 18, Topic 2 Message 542 Mon Jul 04, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 20:31 EDT Longshot: there are some questions that are best left to be answered in the fullness of time. That is one of them. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 2 Message 553 Thu Jul 07, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:59 EDT In an earlier version of the story, it was indeed Kosh who appeared out of nowhere and scragged the Feeder, saying, "Some things we do not allow," but it seemed kinda un-Kosh-like on one level, and it repeated the Deathwalker finish, so it was dropped. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 2 Message 556 Thu Jul 07, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 23:42 EDT The problem with Larry is if you poke him, he tells stuff. Poking doesn't bother me. Since he's already spewed a bit...some small details. The person coming in to be the new CO on B5 will have a rank higher than commander. Thus it makes sense, given this and other factors yet to be revealed, to promote Ivanova to full Commander rank, and expand her duties to get her out of C&C a bit. We're going to be adding a couple of characters...more of the ISN link...and some here (and on other nets) have been correct when they say that the Starfury squadrons should have some kind of squad commanders of their own, in addition to when Ivanova or others take over. We'll be developing a character to fill that slot. On the question of Na'Toth...some background. As y'all may remember, originally we had Mary Woronov slated to be Ko'Dath, G'Kar's assistant. She had *very* real problems with the idea of wearing prosthetics, and also wouldn't wear the red contacts. So we went our separate ways, and Ko'Dath had an unfortunate accident with an airlock. This happened, however, right between shooting two episodes in which we *needed* G'Kar's aide present. So our casting director called in Caitlin Brown on about 24 hours notice, and in fact in her first episode, it's mainly Ko'Dath's makeup, somewhat modified, rather than the sleeker Na'Toth makeup you saw later. Slight differences. If you've seen Caitlin Brown on the "Making Of B5" program, you know she is a *gorgeous* young woman, who has mainly played romantic leads in films and TV. She has continued to get offers in that direction, and over the hiatus, did a film again as a romantic lead with Marlon Brando and (also in the cast) Faye Dunaway. And the very real question is, Does she want to hide her face, be known for playing an alien, and lose the chance to further expand her feature film/romantic lead career? Her answer, after much agonizing, was no. She'd never really intended to stay with it forever, was only coming in on an emergency basis (but we liked her performance so much we kept her in the role), and she was the *only* actor on whom we didn't have long-term options. We very much wanted her to come back, and did everything we could to convince her, but this is what she wants to do. And while this is NOT mutual, it is amicable; I fully understand why she wants to continue on the process of becoming a major player. And as she says, she has a very attractive face; why hide it forever? This being the case, what we're now doing is recasting the role of Na'Toth with a different actress. It won't be a different character, since it's got nothing to do with the story, it's an actor thing. We'll get someone the same size, shape, voice and personality, write the character exactly the same, same name, and move on. Which happens all the time. And, obviously, the prosthetic will be the same, so Na'Toth will still look the same. So, this is entirely her decision, and we wish her luck. It doesn't affect the show or the story, so it doesn't cause us any problems, so why treat it in anything other than an amicable fashion? Insofar as I know, that's all Larry blabbed about. Go ahead, tell me there's more...tell me Larry blabbed about Sinclair's sex change...go ahead, watch a grown man have a cardiac infarction.... jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 2 Message 579 Sat Jul 09, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 20:17 EDT Re: prosthetics...there are two parts, the inner area, which is taken from a mold of the actor's face, and the outer part, which is sculpted. If you change actors, you do a different mold from the face of the actor to create the inner half, but you can keep the outer part the same (based on the sculpture). Usually you sculpt it to stay close to and accent the actor's features. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 2 Message 589 Sun Jul 10, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 18:09 EDT Replacing the character of Na'Toth could be done, but at this point she knows stuff that is important for us to have access to in year two. (Stuff mainly happening in "Chrysalis.") jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 2 Message 605 Mon Jul 11, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 23:56 EDT Lemme dive in here...Bugs sent me his theory, and I noted somewehre or other around here that it was well thought out, was on the right track in many cases, but just got off at the wrong station. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 2 Message 621 Wed Jul 13, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 22:48 EDT PPG = Phased Plasma Gun. "Domo Arigato" is Japanese. Grey reached into Ben Zayn's head and, for lack of a better term, pushed his "pain button," the same way you can stimulate someone's memory or physical sensations with an electrode or chemicals. It was only a second, and he would've shrugged it off quickly, had Sinclair not been there to follow up. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 2 Message 635 Thu Jul 14, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 15:42 EDT I do not have to speculate. I know. And the further I stay away from topic 29 the better. jms ------------ ************ Topic 3 Tue Nov 03, 1992 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:09 EST Sub: Babylon 5 - Computer SFX Tech-Talk Some of the new computer EFX used in BABYLON 5 will be revolutionary, a new approach never seen before on this scale. It's all new tech, and this topic will try and address the new technologies involved. 621 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 18, Topic 3 Message 609 Thu Jul 14, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 23:55 EDT Brett: we've already done it. The CO's office next season will have a view of the Garden area, as will some other rooms. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 3 Message 613 Fri Jul 15, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 16:03 EDT Coke. No pepsi. Cheeseburger. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 3 Message 620 Sat Jul 16, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 18:21 EDT Yes, that building is in the Garden. You can see buildings there in many shots, some better than others. It's a big place. The Fresh Air restaurant is also in the Garden area, and you can see buildings there in "Purple," also upcoming in "Quality." jms ------------ ************ Topic 5 Tue Nov 03, 1992 T.ORTH [Mr. Rico] (Forwarded) Sub: Grid Epsilon Irregulars - News & Info. This topic is for information about Babylon 5 fan groups, newsletters, fanzines, get-togethers, B-5 at conventions, and other general fun. 782 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 18, Topic 5 Message 693 Sat Jul 09, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 20:18 EDT Correct; we're enhancing many of the sets, making some pleasant changes, and building some new ones, and wanted to allow time to do all of this. The goal is always to make each season better than the one before. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 5 Message 695 Sat Jul 09, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 23:02 EDT We're re-doing a *lot* of the signage. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 5 Message 706 Mon Jul 11, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 23:59 EDT There are plans for some kind of B5 fan group, run out of Babylonian Productions, to coordinate stuff and do a very small amount of limited selling (just enough to keep us from getting deep into debt on the thing, since it'll cost us about $75,000 per year to run it). This will also be a central clearing house for convention organizers. More on this as we nail it down. jms ------------ ************ Topic 9 Wed Nov 11, 1992 T.RESTIVO [Little Guy] at 18:27 EST Sub: Babylon 5 Humor From *Beep Beep*, to Top Ten Lists, to full-blown parodies, this is where to put your funny bone in writing! 680 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 18, Topic 9 Message 636 Mon Jul 04, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 01:14 EDT Actually, Delenn's line is, "It is quite...impressive." jms ------------ ************ Topic 11 Sat Nov 14, 1992 J.SHEEN1 [Leviathan] at 18:09 EST Sub: B5 Adrift! BABYLON 5 Topic Drift If you feel like talking about it, but it doesn't fit anywhere else... If its only connection to B-5 is that you thought of it in this CAT... This is where to come and get it out. 583 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 18, Topic 11 Message 543 Thu Jul 07, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 04:03 EDT "The last thing I remember about the dream is finding a secret cave entrance just at the base of the big vasquez spire and stepping inside." Okay...everybody here who *hasn't* heard of Freud please leave the room for the next ten minutes.... jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 11 Message 548 Thu Jul 07, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 23:48 EDT Errr....the freudian interpretation of the dream has *nothing* to do with being heterosexual *or* homosexual. It's the classic dream o entering a womb or vagina, or more simply a sexual image that has no particular gender or gender preference associated with it at *all*. To say there are Freudian implications has *nothing* to do with being gay, straight, or anything else. It did not contain *any* insult. You are reacting to something that wasn't stated, wasn't implied, and doesn't exist. It's the old "train entering a tunnel" dream, basically. Any other interpretation has more to do with what you may be bringing to the table from your own past, than anything that was said. Look at the message again. It simply ain't there. Somehow you have come to associate Freud with gayness, and Freudian analysis with saying that someone's gay...which simply and plainly is not true. jms (b.a. clinical psychology) ------------ Category 18, Topic 11 Message 557 Sat Jul 09, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 01:29 EDT I don't generally have lucid dreams, but there is something very weird about 95% of all my dreams. (And please, don't noboby cite Lovecraft to me, honest to Irving, this is how they are.) Nearly all of my dreams take place in the same place...a sort of dream city that has gradually grown over the years somewhere in my head. It's just what that implies: a city. I know the geography of the place pretty well, though there are occasionally little places I stumble upon that I hadn't noticed before. I know where the theaters are, where the stores are, and where the main shopping center is. There's a bus route that takes you up out of the main part of the city to a little junior college on the fringe of the suburbs. You take the #2 bus, which goes north about five miles, then hooks left. You get off at the main road, and walk south about three blocks and you're there. On the return trip, you get off about half a block from a magazine/bookshop. I know the guy who runs it by face, but haven't yet asked his name. I probably will eventually. In the front of the store are the general magazines and paperbacks; in wood bins a little further in are comics and older magazines. The window faces south, and covers most of the storefront. I'm also a writer here in this "city" as well. I have a two story house. The second level merges with the hillside a bit, so you can walk out onto grass, and a stone flagstone walk. My office is on the second floor. For the last year there's been some renovations in progress, and a bunch of the floor on the second floor has been torn up. It's the same locale in nearly every single dream. It's *that* specific. There's no real plot, no major danger. I work there, go to see a movie sometimes, do some shopping, threads even cross dreams and recur later on. (There was a big flap recently because the city was going to tear down the old theater at the corner near the magazine shop, but we managed to postpone the development.) It is a coherent, consistent city in which 95% of my dreams take place. I see the same people, places, things. Some people get very creeped out when I tell them this. To me, it's just the other place I go when I'm asleep. jms ------------ ************ Topic 12 Wed Nov 18, 1992 B.WIST [Brad] at 18:12 EST Sub: Babylon 5 Sightings Post here when you've spotted Babylon 5, whether it be on Television, Magazine, or somewhere else. Let us know where we can find it/see it, too. 628 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 18, Topic 12 Message 602 Wed Jul 06, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 19:53 EDT You can also look for an interview in an issue of the Michigan Chronicle in a few weeks. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 12 Message 611 Mon Jul 11, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 00:55 EDT Ah...didn't see this, and responded in #1. It's balloon juice. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 12 Message 617 Tue Jul 12, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 00:05 EDT Brief jms sighting in this coming week's TV Guide (July 16 issue), page 16, just two pages away from Cindy Crawford's body.... jms ------------ ************ Topic 14 Thu Dec 31, 1992 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:59 EST Sub: Lurkers/Introductions: Please Sign In A place for newcomers to come in, say hello, whether you want to jump into the conversation or not, just to let us know you're here. 712 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 18, Topic 14 Message 706 Tue Jul 05, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 05:25 EDT This in spite of the petition, I take it...? jms ------------ ************ Topic 17 Tue Jan 19, 1993 C.STOBBE [Colin] at 21:02 EST Sub: Babylon 5 - Merchandising A place to discuss all the neat Babylon 5 merchandising coming out (hopefully) soon 669 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 18, Topic 17 Message 604 Mon Jul 04, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 01:18 EDT Just as the episodes are designed to be watched in full, in part, only a few, in or out of order (for the most part), similarly the web (comic, books, show) will be consistent but not overlapping in any way that requires *anyone* to read or watch all of them to follow anything. I would consider this *vastly* unfair. They should be *consistent* with one another, that's all. If a piece of information comes out in the comic, and later that becomes useful, it must and will be referenced in dialogue so that it's *totally* clear to anyone watching. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 17 Message 607 Mon Jul 04, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 20:39 EDT That's the other thing I forgot: yes, there will be cards, from Cardz. (Or so I'm told; the deal was made, but I haven't heard much from them lately.) Cyberdad: if it weren't for the fact that I kinda want some of this stuff myself, I'd probably work against *any* merchandising as much as I could. Merchandising can begin to drive a show, and suddenly you find yourself introducing items just so you can merchandise them, changing the costumes every couple of seasons to keep that licensor going...as a fan myself, I hate that, and won't do it now that I'm in this position. I'm not a salesman, I'm a writer. If we can do something that adds to the story, or that would look real neat on my wall, terrific. But the day that we do Babylon 5 Underoos, as I said at ChicagoCon, somebody just shoot me. (And you'd be amazed at how *quickly* someone volunteered....) jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 17 Message 616 Tue Jul 05, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 05:27 EDT The B5 theme on the CD that Chris gave me seems to run a bit longer than what we air; and the "Requiem" sequence doesn't include the follow up stuff on the cruiser (at least mine doesn't), but does seem to have a longer build-up. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 17 Message 624 Wed Jul 06, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 02:27 EDT Look for the comic in late November, the novels about the same or a bit later. And I believe it was either Ron or (most likely) John Copeland who suggested the nose-art for Starfuries. (John's a major aviation nut.) jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 17 Message 635 Thu Jul 07, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 04:05 EDT I think the "Requiem" piece is a bit shorter on my CD, only in that it doesn't include the follow-up on the Minbari cruiser. As for the CD-ROM, insofar as I know it's still slated for late Fall. I'm having a meeting with the boys from Compton New Media either later this week or first part of next week, and hope to have more info at that time. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 17 Message 640 Mon Jul 11, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:32 EDT It's going to be both. One primary area will deal with the fictional world of B5. It will have backgrounds on all of our characters, plus details about all of the major alliances (Narns, Minbari, others). You'll see their homeworlds, learn their culture, see some of their language, that sort of thing. There will be a fairly extensive chronology of events between the present and the time of the series, detailing when we first encountered the Centauri, the Dilgar invasion, and other stuff. It should be a fairly extensive encyclopedia of the B5 universe. The other component will deal with the production. I very much want to de-mystify how TV is made. So there will be extensive sections on that area, including one section where you can follow a sequence from script to wardrobe, storyboard, sets, to shooting, to the point of having several dailies from that finished sequence which you can then edit into any order you want, emphasizing people of your choice, close-ups or masters, with the final addition of a piece of music so you can then score the finished product. It should be very cool. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 17 Message 650 Tue Jul 12, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 20:51 EDT You must understand that I *cannot* comment on this publication one way or another. My one request has always been to keep fan fiction out of anywhere where I can easily see it or run into it, since I will never directly seek it out. In terms of a fanzine, I cannot legally comment. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 17 Message 656 Wed Jul 13, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:43 EDT Goodman...*not* to take sides in this, but just to clarify a misperception on your part...something need not bring in a profit in order to violate copyright. The act of publishing something, using copyrighted characters, is infringement pure and simple. And many of the studios now *are* going after fanzines, for the simple reason that if they don't, you run the risk of *losing* your copyright by allowing some things to enter the public domain. For instance, PTEN recently had to go after a computer company for buying ads using B5 photos without copyright attribution on the photo; those photos now run the danger of entering public domain. They had to take sharp legal action. (This happened with some Star Wars stuff, by the way, and some Star Trek early stuff.) The issue is *not* as you represent it. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 17 Message 663 Thu Jul 14, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 23:58 EDT It's definitely a book I'd like to see done, but nothing's firm yet. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 17 Message 667 Sat Jul 16, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 18:23 EDT Not yet, but we've been talking about it. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 17 Message 669 Sat Jul 16, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 20:23 EDT No, they are not. Any script broker selling copies of B5 scripts is doing so without permission. They are engaging in copyright infringement. The contents of the scripts belong to PTEN, but the physical copies belong to the writers, who get nothing out of this. It ruins, for instance, Christy's chance to make a few dollars selling what is hers, if her script gets on the open market. jms ------------ ************ Topic 23 Fri Feb 12, 1993 V.VAIDY1 [Vijay] at 23:00 EST Sub: "OtherWorks" by JMS Before there was "B5" and when "JMS" was just another Plain Joe, there was OtherSyde [A discussion of the other works of J. Michael Straczynski] 196 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 18, Topic 23 Message 171 Tue Jul 12, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:01 EDT ...i hate you...all of you.... jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 23 Message 177 Wed Jul 13, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 00:40 EDT ...fine...great...next thing you'll be dragging he-man and she-ra into this...go ahead...kick a guy when he's down.... jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 23 Message 182 Wed Jul 13, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 16:12 EDT And that's when I shot her, your Honor. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 23 Message 187 Thu Jul 14, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:11 EDT Well, actually, I'm not really ashamed of any of it...there was some good work done in all of those shows...it's just when I look back at them, it's like looking back at anything you did; your brain goes into vapor lock. You're tooling along the B5 freeway, minding your own business, and somebody suddenly tosses a Jayce into the middle of the road, and your brain trips over it for a moment. About six, seven months ago, I dragged out some of the old animated stuff, and while some of it has worn, a lot of it still plays pretty well. Out of dozens of episodes, I think there are only 3 or so that I'd like to eliminate from the known universe. (One of them is the CBS Storybreak I wrote, adapting "The Shy Stegosaurus of Cricket Creek," which I finally got to see after 5 years, much to my regret.) For anyone who cares: HE-MAN AND THE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE - a dozen or more episodes SHE-RA, PRINCESS OF POWER - ditto JAYCE AND THE WHEELED WARRIORS - ditto THE REAL GHOSTBUSTERS - close to 20 episodes I think that's all of them. Developed ELFQUEST for CBS, but it never got near the air, and one syndicated show that got so perverted by the producers, in a bad way, that I took my name off the series. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 23 Message 193 Fri Jul 15, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 16:06 EDT I believe the episode title in "Jayce" was "Final Ride at Journey's End." Someone wants revenge, sets things in motion, realizes to his horror that innocents will be killed, and sacrifices his own life to stop his own actions. What would Elfquest have been like? Like the books. I figure my job in adapting something is to stay as close as possible to the original source, and not mess with it. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 23 Message 196 Sat Jul 16, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 18:24 EDT Actually, the eps I wrote for AW were never released; they were part of the batch done for the last season, which never got aired or released. jms ------------ ************ Topic 24 Fri Jun 04, 1993 J.ROY18 [Jonathan] at 21:11 EDT Sub: Babylon 5 - Weapons and Warfare! For discussion about the weapons, counter weapons, armor, shielding, tactics, logistics, and so forth, of small combat and large scale war in the Babylon 5 universe. 317 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 18, Topic 24 Message 308 Sun Jul 10, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:53 EDT There are definitely PPG assault rifles, which are visible in "Grail." They can fire faster than pistols, but I don't think they could handle the power-buildup to fire 3-6 per second. That's definitely slug-thrower turf. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 24 Message 312 Sun Jul 10, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 21:14 EDT Correct, PPG bursts don't bounce off walls/ricochet, or penetrate walls, which would imperil others. jms ------------ ************ Topic 25 Fri Mar 12, 1993 S.SHELLENBAR [>> SHANE <<] at 08:47 EST Sub: J. Michael Straczynski Speaks in Public This is the place to find out where and when JMS will be appearing next. JMS has honed his skills as a public speaker and is taking his act on the road. 580 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 18, Topic 25 Message 563 Sat Jul 09, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 01:30 EDT I'm told there's also some kinda B5 panel on Friday...? jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 25 Message 566 Mon Jul 11, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:34 EDT Okay, as I understand it, given a call today from the mysterious Nancy with SDCC, my main panel/episode showing will be Friday, from 2-4 p.m. I'd originally figured that there should be two panels, one a straightforward panel, the other mainly a showing, but they got jammed into one. Initially they'd slated it for 3 hours, 2-5, but I can't see subjecting *anyone* to three hours in a chair. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 25 Message 574 Wed Jul 13, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 00:41 EDT Yeah, I'd *really* wanted Saturday afternoon, and pressed for it, but was told that it was booked (thus breaking the Saturday tradition). jms ------------ ************ Topic 30 Mon Jul 04, 1994 D.KAUFFMAN5 [CyberDad] at 13:14 EDT Sub: Nods, In-Jokes, and References Post any nods, in-jokes, or references you have seen here. For example, Babylon 5 refers to the Babylon of ancient Earth; the location of B5 is at Grid Epsilon 470/18/22, the location of the original B5 topic on GEnie. 52 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 18, Topic 30 Message 6 Mon Jul 04, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 20:41 EDT Lurkers is indeed a net reference. Bill Mitchell from "Sky" is a reference to General Billy Mitchell; Walker Smith is the real name of Sugar Ray Robinson. Just a couple to keep the ball rolling. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 30 Message 16 Tue Jul 05, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 05:29 EDT Nearly all of our production crew appear in "By Any Means Necessary" at various spots; the guy yelling "I say we STRIKE!" is our director, Jim Johnston. And yes, John Flinn was played by John Flinn, our DP. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 30 Message 28 Thu Jul 07, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 04:09 EDT Well, it was certainly based on the "classic" UFO alien design, yes. (And if there's a saucer parked in front of the B5 offices tomorrow, I'm not going in.) Both Christy Marx and Kathryn can both be *briefly* seen in the pilot movie as BG in the casino...and in the main titles, Kathryn's back is to the camera in the wide downshot, though you really can't make it out well in that one. Also in the montage in the pilot movie, seated at the bar under narration, the fellow with the beard, is art director John Iacovelli.] jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 30 Message 30 Fri Jul 08, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 02:54 EDT Boy, the most obscure reference in the bunch...yeah, I slipped some spoo in there once. A couple of real cute (as in wanna drop a truck on them cute) elf-types offer Skeletor a bowl of Spoo. His reply: (in a mincing tone to start) "No, I don't want any SPOOOOOOO. I *hate* Spoo. (beat) And I don't even know what Spoo IS." jms ------------ ************ Topic 31 Sat Jul 09, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 20:23 EDT Sub: Really Stupid Questions from JMS Every so often, I need Information. (You won't get it!) Technical stuff, research or reference stuff...and given the brain trust here, I figured this could be a useful resource from time to time. With appreciation. 41 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 18, Topic 31 Message 1 Sat Jul 09, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 20:25 EDT Okay, real simple question. Long discourses and discussions will only confuse me and, finally, scare the hell out of me. Should I buy the Dell Dimension XPS P90 now, or wait for the 604 chip to come out with the Power PCs in the fall? jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 31 Message 12 Sun Jul 10, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 18:13 EDT Okay...so if you re-buy every 4 years, what the hell does one do with one's old computers? jm(who still has two old Kaypro systems sitting here)s ------------ Category 18, Topic 31 Message 20 Wed Jul 13, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 00:42 EDT I want a computer big enough to rule the world. jms ------------ Category 18, Topic 31 Message 38 Sat Jul 16, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 18:28 EDT Can I get SCSI installed with the computer from Dell? Does PCI take the place of SCSI? Will Jeff marry Sally? Question: the Native American practice of "wars" in which you bonk each other with gourds while riding on horseback, not really hurting anyone but racking up points...that's called "counting coup," yes? jms ------------ ------------ Category 19, Topic 19 Message 24 Wed Jul 06, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 02:17 EDT Can I ask for more elucidation about what was shown in the trailer for the episode after "Grail?" If Londo was mentioned, there may be a glitch, since he doesn't appear in either "Eyes" or "Legacies," the next couple up. Ah doesn't understand.... jms ------------ Category 19, Topic 19 Message 53 Thu Jul 07, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:53 EDT After "Grail," we had a discussion with Chris about funny music. We do not anticipate further discussions. (In a full season of music for B5, this is the only discussion we've had of a critical nature, which is extraordinary for any series; he's done a lot of wonderful work for us. In the two-parter, btw, he went absolutely full-out and gave us some of the best scoring of the season...gorgeous stuff, second only to either "Sky" or "Chrysalis.") Mike: re: being "more realistic" in representing alien life...you show it to me, and I'll do it. For now, we don't know *what* is "realistic." Maybe crop circles are a wonderful forgery, abductions a psychological aberration, and saucers mass hysteria. And maybe they're not. As someone noted, the universe is not only stranger than we know, it is stranger than we *can* know. jms ------------ Category 19, Topic 19 Message 61 Thu Jul 07, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 16:19 EDT On the feeder being sentient...neither Sinclair nor anyone else on "our" side of the story ever heard it speaking; all they knew was that it was a killer, and it was dangerous, and had to be stopped. jms ------------ Category 19, Topic 19 Message 114 Sun Jul 10, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 18:03 EDT RE: the PPGs...sorry, Kiwi, I don't agree with you. We *have* shown burn marks on clothing...in fact you'll get a good look at it in several upcoming episodes. Those who've seen "Quality of Mercy" can vouch for that one alone. And they do leave *brief* trails, but remember they are moving very fast, almost too fast for the eye to see. These aren't rays, like phasers, they're bursts of superheated plasma. jms ------------ Category 19, Topic 19 Message 122 Mon Jul 11, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:27 EDT Yep, virtual ship. jms ------------ Category 19, Topic 19 Message 128 Mon Jul 11, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 15:58 EDT Thanks. Hey, a guy's gotta have *some* fun.... jms ------------ ************ Topic 20 Sun Apr 17, 1994 STARR [Arne] at 23:50 EDT Sub: #122 - "Eyes" by Larry G. DiTillio. Directed by Jim Johnston. 70 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 19, Topic 20 Message 8 Wed Jul 13, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 01:09 EDT BTW...about the time we were delivering "Eyes," somebody on one of the nets was going on and on about how "B5 continuity *stinks*...I'll bet we NEVER hear about Deathwalker again, or the strike, or the Vorlons killing Deathwalker, or Raghesh 3...." And seeing what was at that moment on my TV, I wanted to reach through the computer monitor, roll up my forefinger, and *plink* that person right upside the nose. Unfortunately, I have not yet found a modem program that supports this feature. But Ron is promising me something by the Fall.... jms ------------ Category 19, Topic 20 Message 10 Wed Jul 13, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:38 EDT Actually, we thought about it, but we covered that in an earlier episode this season -- I think it was "War Prayer" -- so decided against it. jms ------------ Category 19, Topic 20 Message 29 Thu Jul 14, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 23:53 EDT Okay...I'm about to lose my temper, so anyone who doesn't want to see it, skip to the next message. Y'know, I am getting so goddamned tired of people who have no frame of reference beyond the latest STAAAAAAAR TREEEEEEEKKKKKK episode labeling stuff, to use the phrase uptopic, "little more than a remake of a TNG episode." Tell me, do you *really* think that STAAAAAARRRR TREEEKKKKKKK invented the internal investigations/trial story? If not, I have about 30 movies and a hundred or so books to show you. The logic of any such investigation is that you're going to come in, and you're going to pull in the head of security because that person has information you're going to need. What, do you think Star Trek thunk that up? It's SOP in such situations. But because we did it, that makes it Star Trek. Are you aware that neither I, nor Larry, ever *saw* "The Drumhead?" So now you tell me how we make this "little more than a remake." Further...you don't think. Damn it, you don't *think* about what you're saying. You just type it in. Someone who owns the RIGHTS to a story can do a REMAKE. If you lift a story from another series and to it (do it) yourself, that's not a remake, that's theft. That's called plagiarism. You in essence call Larry a thief. Dance around it all you want to, that's what plagiarism *is*. And that's *precisely* what you accuse in your message. Because YOU don't have a frame of reference outside TNG, suddenly Larry's a thief. Let me state this clearly, so the less synaptically enabled will be able to understand it: I do not watch ST in any of its incarnations. I have no desire to do any story that TNG has done. If I discover that any story we do comes close, I try to change it. My operating theory is that a proper B5 story would be undoable in the ST universe. We do NOT do "remakes" of TNG episodes. I did not work seven years of my damned life to do "remakes" of TNG episodes, and I resent the hell out of this crap, which floats to the top of the discussion every once in a while, usually from people who should maybe watch something other than TNG once in a while and broaden out their repertoire. If TNG did or did not do a story similar to us is irrelevant to th4e fact that we DO NOT do TNG remakes, and we DO NOT borrow stories from TNG, ever, at any time, for any reason. In the last two weeks, I've had to defend David Gerrold who got hit by accusations that the premise for "Believers" was stolen from TNG because THEY did a story about religious parents who don't want their kid operated on for religious reasons, and lord KNOWS *they* originated that story...DC Fontana got a few of the same when "War Prayer" came out, and I'm getting just a little tired and cranky about people who do not fully grasp the implications of what they are talking about offhandedly saying it's a remake or was borrowed. How'd you like it, Kiwi, if I sat here and casually accused you of shoplifting? Or sleeping around on your wife or girlfriend? Well, the accusation of plagiarism/story borrowing is no less offensive to *any* working writer. Are we absolutely, crystal clear on this? jms ------------ Category 19, Topic 20 Message 37 Fri Jul 15, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 02:57 EDT Yeah, well, at least on days when I'm cranky it'll give me the opportunity to come up with material that I can sidestream into dialogue for Ivanova. I intend to use "synaptically challenged" the first chance I get. jms ------------ Category 19, Topic 20 Message 41 Fri Jul 15, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 15:50 EDT Thanks; yeah, it's good to know that we don't seem to have, or need people jumping hoops to try and make things work or make sense. It's a pretty good conversation (despite ye olde author's occasional crankiness). If anything, I'm harder on the episodes than anyone else, since I know all the elements that might have been stronger or different, and I always, *always* want to go back one more time and tweak something, adjust something. And for what it's worth...yeah, the pilot wasn't all it should've been. But we've moved on, and I think so far the season has been very good. Win, lose or draw, I think we've made a mark. jms ------------ Category 19, Topic 20 Message 43 Fri Jul 15, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 18:12 EDT Kiwi...you're full of it. This has got nothing to do with expressing negative opinions. That's a dodge. There's been plenty of negative opinion expressed here and elsewhere, along with all the positive stuff, and I haven't said a word about it. And frankly I'm getting tired of people who mouth off about something in an offensive way, then saying when they get called on it that I'm trying to suppress negative opinion. And I'm not talking about comparisons here. I'm addressing what you *specifically* wrote, that this was "little more than a remake of Drumhead." You didn't say that it explored the same themes, which would've been fine, you didn't say that it stayed in the same areas as cop shows, which also would've been fine...you not only said that it was a remake, you then listed a point-by-point comparison. You're the one dancing around semantics here. I'm not tired of or discouraging comparisons, I'm tired of people who don't know what the hell they're talking about saying that we're ripped off/remade/borrowed a Star Trek story. Which is what you said. It's right there in the message. It's got nothing to do with negative opinions, and everything to do with a false accusation on your part. You don't like it? Fine. But I have a tendency to prefer the truth, stated harshly, to a falsehood stated casually. jms ------------ Category 19, Topic 20 Message 51 Fri Jul 15, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 23:11 EDT The other thing about "Eyes," btw, is that it's not something dumped in outta nowhere to make a conflict; it's the direct payoff of events that take place throughout the season where Sinclair breaks or bends the rules. Lots of people on the various nets said, "Yeah, there he goes, breaking the rules in the strike, but is this every gonna pay off? No, probably not." If we're consistent with reality, and with our story, and Sinclair's broken some rules, and pissed off some people back home, then it is *inevitable* that this will eventually come home to roost in the form of an investigation. jms ------------ Category 19, Topic 20 Message 57 Sat Jul 16, 1994 STRACZYNSKI [Joe] at 03:20 EDT "Memo to myself: don't ever compare an episode of B5 to an episode of Star Trek without first researching the entirety of written fiction for non- Trek precedents." That's a snotty response that has nothing to do with the issue that I gigged you on. You can compare anything to anything, I really don't care. All that I have asked you to do is be aware of your language when you accuse someone of stealing something? Why is that so difficult for you to grasp? You keep trying to distort my point into something that it's not, and I have no intention of letting you get away with it. You said we did a remake of an ST episode. You didn't discuss the issues, you said it was a remake. You implied the story was lifted from ST. That is what you said. I'm sorry if it's now inconvenient for you, or that you got your nose caught in the doorjam, but words mean what they mean, not what you want them to mean. And I find it very telling that when confronted, you announced that your only options were to slink off or throw this in my face. Odd that you wouldn'd consider something like, "Sorry, it wasn't my intention to indicate that Larry had stolen the idea. I regret if that was implied." Guess that never even occured to you, did it? You can dance around re-interpretations all you want, Halliwell, but your comment was rude, and pejorative, and an insult to Larry, and by association to me. And it's got nothing to do with comparisons or the entirety of written fiction. And that's clear to every person here but you. You're evading and backing and filling. You get very cavalier here about other people, about the work that others do, their talents or lack thereof...you're always the first in line to criticize somebody...but you don't much like it when it's you, do you? Why should I treat you with any more respect than you treat others? Now, on another day, maybe I'd just turn the other cheek, which I do a *lot* around here, and let it go. But today, now, here, I don't much feel like it. Maybe I've heard this line once too often from people, and you're just the latest one to get in my face with it. Either way, maybe you'll learn something about running one's mouth, and that words have meaning, and if you accuse somebody of remaking somebody else's idea, you'd damned well better be prepared to back it up, or back off and apologize. Or is even that modicum of civilized behavior completely beyond your comprehension? We'll know in your next post whether you intend to act like a man, or a weasel. It's your call. jms ------------