lurkers-guide/guide/002

<h2><a name="OV">Overview</a></h2>

<blockquote><cite>
Delenn is in danger when a soul hunter, an alien who captures the souls of
the dying, arrives at the station.
</cite>

<a href="http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Sheppard,+William+Morgan">W. Morgan Sheppard</a> as Soul Hunter #1.
<a href="http://us.imdb.com/Name?Snyder,+John+(I)">John Snyder</a> as Soul Hunter #2.
</blockquote>

<pre>
Sub-genre: Suspense
<a href="/lurk/p5/intro.html">P5 Rating</a>: <a href="/lurk/p5/002">7.05</a>

Production number: 102
Original air date: February 2, 1994
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006HAZ4/thelurkersguidet">DVD release date</a>: November 5, 2002

Written by J. Michael Straczynski
Directed by Jim Johnston
</pre>

<h3><a name="WF">Watch For</a></h3>
<ul>

<li> <a name="WF:1">The Soul Hunter</a> mentions the death of someone
	to Sinclair.  That name will come up again.

<li> <a href="#NO.fluid">A fluid flowing the wrong way.</a>

</ul>

<p>
<hr size=3>
<p>

<H2><A NAME="BP">Backplot</A></H2>

<ul>

<li> <A NAME="BP:1">The soul hunter of this episode has visited</A>
	Earth before.

<li> <A NAME="BP:2">Minbari are trained from childhood to protect their</A>
	souls from soul hunters.

<li> <A NAME="BP:3">The soul hunter had a unique perspective on a</A>
	significant event in Minbari history:
	<BLOCKQUOTE>
	[to Sinclair] "Minbari: jealous, selfish, private.  We have
	saved only a few - very rare.  The rarest of all, their leader
	Dukat, dying; your fault, your war; the pinnacle of Minbari
	evolution.  We came, I, others.  They made a wall of bodies to
	stop us!  He died.  And his dreams, his ideas - all that he was,
	all that he could ever be - gone... wasted... jealous..."
	</BLOCKQUOTE>
	Later he recognizes Delenn from the Grey Council, which was
	responsible for stopping him.

</ul>

<H2><A NAME="UQ">Unanswered Questions</A></H2>

<ul>

<li> <A NAME="UQ:1">Why do all races but humans know about soul
hunters?</A>
	Since they all share the Minbari's fear of them, do most of them
	share the <A HREF="#AN:2:2">Minbari belief in reincarnation</A>?

<li> <A NAME="UQ:2">Why are so many non-humans</A> <A HREF="#NO:2">moving
to
	Earth</A>?  They must face a fair amount of prejudice there.
	(cf: <A HREF="007.html">"The War Prayer"</A>)

<li> <A NAME="UQ:3">What are the "certain classes" of Minbari in which</A>
	Delenn says soul hunters have always taken a particular interest?

<li> <A NAME="UQ:4">"Your fault, your war," says the soul hunter to</A>
	Sinclair, recounting <A HREF="#BP:3">Dukat's death</A>.  Was he
	referring to humans in general, Sinclair in particular, or Dukat?

<li> <A NAME="UQ:5">"If only you could see," says the soul hunter to</A>
	Franklin.  Apparently he can actually observe the soul's
	departure from a dying body.  Later we see, possibly through
	Delenn's eyes, a blue wispy something escape as she breaks a
	soul vessel.  Does this mean that Minbari too can see souls?

<li> <A NAME="UQ:6">With a glimpse into Delenn's soul, the soul hunter</A>
	exclaims, "You would plan such a thing?  You would <EM>do</EM>
	such a thing?  Incredible."  He's had a long history with the
	Minbari - what would so surprise him?  (Revealed in
	<a href="022.html">"Chrysalis"</a> and
	<a href="024.html">"Revelations"</a>)

<li> <A NAME="UQ:7">Recovering in Medlab, Delenn says to Sinclair,</A>
	"I knew you would come.  We were right about you."  Clearly, the
	Minbari have made predictions about him.  However, Sinclair
	didn't really prove anything about his character by rescuing
	Delenn - someone else could easily have been the one to find her.
	Perhaps he's just fulfilled part of a prophecy, thereby
	confirming his role in it.
	(cf: <A HREF="005.html">"Parliament of Dreams"</A>)

<li> <A NAME="UQ:8">Combining the above questions, does Delenn's</A>
	incredible plan involve the Minbari predictions about Sinclair?

<li> <A NAME="UQ:9">As the soul hunter himself challenged, why is one</A>
	of the great Minbari leaders acting as their ambassador on
	Babylon 5?  Sinclair is now wondering the same thing.

</ul>

<H2><A NAME="AN">Analysis</A></H2>

<ul>

<li> <A NAME="AN:1">Delenn meets Sinclair just as he's going to check</A>
	out the injured pilot, and offers to help him ID the fellow.  She
	has a knack for being at the right place at the right time.
	(cf: <A HREF="../synops/000.html#delenn-timing">"The Gathering"</A>).

<li> <A NAME="AN:3">Sinclair did not call for backup when he</A>
	encountered the soul hunter, even though there were four others
	nearby searching for Delenn.  He has a tendency to put himself into
	dangerous situations. (cf: <A HREF="004.html">"Infection"</A>)

<li> <A NAME="AN:2">During this episode there are three different</A>
	stories told about the soul.  Sinclair heard all three, and doesn't
	know which to believe.  All he knows is what he saw.
	<dl>

	<dt> <A NAME="AN:2:1"><B>Franklin:</B></A>

	<dd> There is no soul that survives the body.  With advanced
		technology, he allows, one could preserve a record of
		someone's personality, but death is death.

	<dt> <A NAME="AN:2:2"><B>Delenn:</B></A>

	<dd> All sentients have immortal souls.  When a Minbari dies its
		soul merges with the souls of other dead Minbari.  These
are
		recycled into future generations, so as individuals advance
		their own souls, the Minbari as a whole advance.

	<dt> <A NAME="AN:2:3"><B>soul hunter:</B></A>

	<dd> All sentients have <em>ephemeral</em> souls.  When a person
		dies, the soul expires into oblivion.  However, soul
hunters
		have a prescient attraction to death - if they so choose
they
		can capture and preserve a soul "for the greater good" at
the
		moment it leaves the body.  They carry with them a bag full
of
		the souls they have "saved", each in its own glass vessel.

	</dl>

	For a Minbari, the soul hunter's method of preservation is true
	death, for it cuts a soul off from the rest and diminishes the next
	generation; for a soul hunter, the true loss is
<em>uncollected</em>
	souls.<br>
	These are completely irreconcilable belief systems.

</ul>

<H2><A NAME="NO">Notes</A></H2>

<ul>

<li> <A NAME="NO:1">Dr. Franklin arrives on the starliner Asimov, which</A>
	we see again later.

<li> <A NAME="NO:2">Dr. Kyle is on his way to a new assignment working</A>
	with the president.  He's much needed there what with "so many
	aliens migrating to Earth," as Franklin puts it.

<li> <A NAME="NO:3">The average human lifespan is almost 100 years.</A>

<li> <A NAME="NO.4">Ivanova conducts a simple funeral with these words:</A>
	"From the stars we came, and to the stars we return, from now
	until the end of time.  We therefore commit this body to the deep."

<li> <A NAME="NO:5">The soul hunter tells Sinclair his opinion of the</A>
	Minbari: "pale, bloodless, look in their eyes and see nothing
	but mirrors, infinities of reflection..."

<li> <a name="NO.fluid">When Delenn is recovering</a> in medlab
	at the end of the episode, she's attached to a machine that should
	presumably be pumping blood back into her body.  But the fluid is
	flowing out of her instead.  The shot was played backwards so the
	director could get the camera movement he wanted.

</ul>

<H2><A NAME="JS">jms speaks</A></H2>

<ul>

<p>
   <li> Well, I just saw a cut of the episode that's going to air second, the
	one guest-starring Morgan Shepherd.  Oh, man...on the question of 
	Did you learn anything from the pilot...this thing *moves* like a 
	sumbitch.   It's a very unusual, very *creepy* episode in many ways.
	And filled with character stuff...and a good bit of background about
	some of our characters rendered in active ways.  I'm really dying to
	see what people think of this one when it airs.  It manages to take 
	what would normally be considered a science *fantasy* issue, and deal
	with it from a  science fiction perspective, without compromising on
	the latter at all.   It's a very, *very* strong episode.

<p>
   <li> <EM>Who's right, the soul hunter or the minbari?</EM><br>
	Yes.

<p>
   <li> We leave the question open: Is he actually taking souls, or simply
	encoding the personality matrix and, in essence, creating an artificial
	version of the individual's personality?

<p>
   <li> The various characters take their own stands, which vary.  Franklin 
	only considers the possibility of cloning someone's personality 
	matrix, for instance.  And again, it depends on how you *define* soul.
	The Soul Hunter defines it not as something supernatural, but as the
	collection of thoughts, personality, feelings and the very essence of
	the person that dies with the body.  That definition is broad enough
	to encompass just about anything.  Then you get into the more 
	specific ideas of what a soul is.

	<p>
	One person at a post production house we've used has indicated that 
	he has "theological problems" with working on that episode; not 
	because it's *against* what he believes -- he's worked on horror
	movies and stuff with devils and the like -- but because it takes a
	point of view he doesn't much like...in that he has to sit and defend
	the whole *context* of his ideas...meaning, it's making him think.  
	He can just poo-poo the stuff against what he believes, support what
	he does believe in...but he isn't quite sure where this show comes
	down, or where it makes *him* come down.  I've had any number of 
	problems with people on a show before, but this is the first time
	I've run into a theological problem.

<p>
   <li> What the soul was, who's right, and even whether this is SF or 
	Science Fantasy, was it explained enough to merit one over the other
	... how can I put this...?  I don't want to spoon-feed stuff to 
	people.  What I want is not to hit someone with a MORAL, or a message,
	or "This is what a soul is," or "This is what makes it an SF series,"
	I want to start discussions.  Arguments.  Preferably a bar fight or
	two.

	<p>
	We present an issue.  Here are the sides.  Now...what do YOU think 
	about it?  I want this show to ask, "Who are you?  Where are you 
	going?"  That's half the fun.  Some of my favorites pastimes in 
	college were sitting in the commons, or the library, arguing this 
	stuff from every possible angle.  You think I'm gonna tell you what
	to think?  What it means?  No.  The goal is to provoke discussion.
	Preferably passionate discussion.

	<p>
	Otherwise I might as well just start renting billboards and putting 
	up signs.

<p>
   <li> Re: why soul hunter #1's ship was out of control...the second soul
	hunter comments that they've been tracking him, and caught up with 
	him a few days ago.  They attacked, "and he escaped, his ship 
	damaged."  That is what brought him here...and led his pursuers to 
	this place as well.

<p>
   <li> <em>Will we see more soul hunters?</em><br>
	Eventually.

<p>
   <li> And yes, humans would probably have *heard* of Soul Hunters, 
	distantly, as a legend.  I see no reason why they would believe they
	existed, particularly with a title like that, unless and until 
	actually encountering one.

<p>
   <li> Re: Sinclair's actions toward the Soul Hunter...the device he uses was
	trained on Delenn.  It was spiraling up to full power throughout the 
	scene.  Just as Sinclair's thrown, you see it starting to come to 
	critical mass...it's shooting at Delenn.  There isn't/wasn't time to 
	sit there and figure out how it works, and shut off the right button. 
	He turned it so that it faced away from her...and the Hunter was caught
	in his own machine.

	<p>
	There was nowhere else to go with the machine.

<p>
   <li> In "Soul Hunter," Franklin notes that the average human life span is
	now about a hundred years.  It's quite a bit longer for the other races;
	G'Kar is about 70 or more, but is considered mid-range, equal to a human
	in early 40s, among Narns.  Delenn is in about the same position, equal
	to 30s-40s in her terms, but in years a bit older.  They are a pretty
	long lived people.  Centauri aren't quite as long-lived, but they do a
	bit better than the Narns.  The Vorlons......are.

<p>
   <li> To the question about a Soul Hunter's strength...yes, it is *very*
	considerable.  Even with one arm he was able to slam the hell out of
	the commander, pick him up and again slam him against a wall before
	throwing him about 10 feet across the room.  Had he not been stopped,
	and stopped good, yes, he would've torn Sinclair to ribbons.

<p>
   <li> Delenn was shattering the soul globes in order to let the souls 
	escape, rather than playing with them.  Look on the floor around her,
	and you'll see shattered globes.  There should also be a sound of 
	them breaking in her hands, the light goes out, and something 
	escapes....

<p>
   <li>@@@911503837 <em>Was Delenn only releasing Minbari souls, or all the souls?</em><br>
	It would be any and all so imprisoned.

<p>
   <li> You're most definitely welcome; it was something we did to honor
	Asimov, who determined the shape of this genre for many writers.

<p>
   <li> Why is part of me tempted to decide that around the year 2223 the 
	most revered figure in Earthforce Command was General Ira Asimov, a 
	brilliant strategist for whom the liner was named....?

	<p>
	There are certain benefits to a design-your-own-future universe....

<p>
   <li> I deeply admired Asimov.  Harlan Ellison, this series consultant, was
	as dear a friend to Asimov as anyone could be.  I named the starliner
	after Asimov shortly after his death, because I will personally miss
	him, and for Harlan, as his friend.

<p>
   <li> In your complaints regarding the commander flying off on occasional
	missions (and he only does it about 3 times out of 22 episodes, so I
	hardly see this as a problem), you are forgetting several other 
	*realities* of military life.  If you're a pilot, even as a commander,
	you have to log in X-number of hours flying time per month in order to
	continue to qualify for flight pay.  This is a *requirement*.  And it
	doesn't just mean flying around the station a few times.
	<p>
	Second, many commanders -- as recently as Vietnam and afterward --
	did and continue to go out on missions and sorties because it is 
	rather expected of them, and because it maintains the respect of the
	rest of the squadron(s).
	<p>
	Third, and possibly most important, Earthforce is the same as the
	contermporary Air Force in one important respect: promotion up the 
	ranks is tied *directly* to combat experience and, in this case,
	combat flying.  That's why women fighter pilots and helicopter pilots
	have been fighting so *vigorously* to be allowed to fly combat 
	missions; they know that they can't be promoted fully up the line 
	without that.  Sinclair has no desire to be a commander all his life,
	he'd like to move on.  Hence it behooves him to get in combat time 
	whenever possible.
	<p>
	Your statement that it "doesn't wash" has nothing to do with how the
	military *actually* works, and everything to do with the skewed and
	inaccurate portrayal of the military that you get from Trek.  This is
	absolutely legitimate, and the B5 mailbox these days is partly 
	crammed with letters from vets thanking us for getting this part 
	right.
	<p>
	I suppose I could mention this in passing in dialogue, but then it
	becomes a matter of sticking in dialogue not because it's important
	to an episode, but because some folks would like things explained to
	them.  I don't think that's my responsibility.

<p>
   <li> I answered you elsewhere here on this topic earlier this evening.  
	To just nit for a moment, to say that Sinclair picks up "every 
	derelict ship" seems a little unfair...he's picked up *one*, and only
	one, and only picks up one this entire season.  Why him?  A) Because
	he's good at it, B) he could use the flight pay, C) it'll look good 
	on his record, and D) because as he says as he leaves, it's a 
	potential first-contact situation.  (NOt to mention E, that he has a
	death-wish.)
	<p>
	I would submit to you that this is NOT the same as having one
	character do a zillion different jobs on the station.  I think that
	you're reacting to something you've seen on Trek, and are assuming 
	based on an example of one that we're doing it in B5 as well.  We're
	not.  Also, in "Purple," Garibaldi sends a different team out to 
	handle the gunfire, so there are others who do things.  Question 
	becomes, how many new and recurring characters do you want to 
	introduce?  There are currently *14* regular and recurring characters
	on B5, and there are many folks who are saying that's too many.  As it
	is, we do introduce an aide to Garibaldi who takes care of some stuff
	for him.  Just as Sinclair delegates to Ivanova, and Ivanova delegates
	to the observation dome techs.
	<p>
	I just feel that you're leaping to a conclusion based on a paucity of
	evidence, built upon your experiences with another show.  We're simply
	not doing this.

<p>
   <li> Normally, I don't tend to respond to negatives, because I don't 
	generally want to get in the way or be perceived to be getting in the
	way of criticism.  I don't.  But I feel I have to respond to some of
	this.   If the show is open to criticism, then it seems to me that
	some of the critiques should be open as well.  And some of these I 
	think are quite unfair.

	<p>
	1) When did they move the jump gate (re: the time required to get from
	the gate by Kosh's ship, as opposed to the Hunter ship).  They/we
	didn't.  Once again, and I wish people could remember this, Kosh's 
	ship BEGAN TO DECELERATE the instant it emerged from the gate, in 
	order to dock with B5 without smashing into it.  The Soul Hunter ship
	was out of control, careening in at full speed.  (This was a widely 
	discussed reason why the Vorlon fleet got to B5 so quickly as vs. 
	Kosh's ship.  They were moving fast to get into striking position.)

	<p>
	2) The Hunter's ship was on autopilot, set to come out of the first
	gate it came to.

	<p>
	3) There was still time for the station's defense grid to blow the
	ship.  Yes, pieces would have continued onward, but a hell of a lot 
	of its inertia would've been taken out by the incoming fire, and any 
	remaining pieces would've either been taken out as well, or would 
	have been so small as to not damage the hull (which is *very* thick 
	at that point) given its blast-enforced deceleration.

	<p>
	4) Yes, Sinclair would've gone up with it.  You pays your money, you
	takes your chances.

	<p>
	5) There was no "the Earth is going to explode" story here; you have 
	a ship colliding with the station, that has to be stopped.  It has 
	to be stopped within the period between when it emerges from the gate,
	and the time it would collide.  You want to know how much time you 
	have to work in.  Maybe it's a dramatic device, but it's also exactly
	what you would do.  What would you prefer?  "Lieutenant Commander, 
	how much longer until impact?"  "Uh...I dunno...can you hang on a 
	second?"

	<p>
	6) Re: the "funny forehead" comment...it was not what I've understood
	the FF syndrome to mean...a regular head with a little treatment on
	the front.  This was a whole-head prosthetic, covering the entire back
	of the head.  So wrong on that one.  And re: n'grath having 6 legs
	rather than 4...who're you to say that?  Ever seen a praying mantis?
	Do all insects all over the galaxy have to have six legs to qualify?
	You don't like minimal makeup, you don't like full-body prosthetics
	...you understand that this comes out as "nothing will please me 
	except a real alien."  You tell me where to find one in Central
	Casting, and I'll hire him.

	<p>
	7) Okay, here's my biggest gripe: the note that the soul aspect was
	Trek and "katra."  Let me be clear on this: I don't give a damn what
	Trek has or has not done now, long ago, or will do in the future.  
	We can't be constantly looking over our shoulder, limiting our
	universe because of another show.  If your only frame of reference
	when it comes to discussing the soul is Star Trek, then that's
	profoundly disappointing, but it's got nothing to do with me.  The 
	basic concept goes back to the beginnings of civilization (that your
	soul can be captured somehow).  Further, there were no soul hunters 
	in ST, it was placement of one's spirit in another body.   I'm getting
	real tired of the notion that if Trek did something, nobody else ever
	can do it.  Like the person who said that Trek invented nanotechnology,
	and thus when we used it in the pilot episode in the nanotech machine
	G'Kar swallows, we were just copying Trek's nanites.

	<p>
	I refuse to surrender creative control of this series to the ghost of
	Star Trek's used notions.  From time to time, we'll cross into areas
	they have also touched.  We'll touch it differently.  Deal with it.  
	But please don't put a Star Trek (tm) tag on the soul, and the history
	of the soul.

	<p>
	8) You say a guard's gun was taken *twice* in this episode.  Where is
	#2 (if #1 is the medlab guard)?  I see a guard being attacked from
	behind, but not his gun being taken.

	<p>
	9) Re: the second soul hunter's makeup being "inferior" to the first:
	they were essentially exactly the same...same material, same design,
	minus the stone, which varied...I'm sorry, but they were made, applied
	and used in exactly the same way.

	<p>
	10) Why drain her of blood?  Why the hell not?  In some countries, 
	that was used as a means of execution.  Bleeding was also used (in
	theory) to heal.  Okay, let's say he used poison.  "Why use poison?"
	you probably would've asked.  "Oh, it was the old poison gag, and 
	they find a convenient antidote."  There's no difference.

	<p>
	11) How did the hunter relate his sense of death to a wall map?  I 
	ask again...why not?  If you can buy it happens at all, why not?  How
	is that any different than walking through a hall, or being drawn to 
	a planet?  This is strictly a straw-man example, as is much of what
	you cite.

	<p>
	This, frankly, is what I find so offensive in your note.  You take
	things that as a matter of opinion you might have done differently,
	and then try to hold it up as a fault.  You set up straw man 
	arguments that could be just as easily turned around on anything, 
	mischaracterizing something in order to take a cheap shot.

	<p>
	12) Why didn't Sinclair link in when he found the hunter?  Because he
	only "found" the hunter when he was being SHOT AT.  And at that point
	you don't want to raise your voice because you'll be shot at again.

	<p>
	13) You complain that the soul globes seemed to wait until the moment
	Sinclair freed them to act (as though it were the bag that had been 
	holding them in).  Sure, they could've emerged...and floated.  A lot
	of good that would've done them.  What they needed was someone who 
	could stop him, and that was Sinclair's task.  They were able to
	distract the hunter long enough for that to happen.  Minus Sinclair, 
	what were they supposed to do, bedazzle him to death?

	<p>
	14) Re: shining things into the camera = NBC Mystery Movie.  See point
	11a above.  I'm not responsible for your cultural reference points.

	<p>
	I don't mean to yell, but thing is, I don't mind genuine criticism, if
	we specifically do something that is objectively *wrong*.  If you 
	don't like something, that's also fine.  But I'm tired of people who
	confuse opinion with fact, and that if it isn't done their way, then
	it isn't somehow *right*...and the notion that Star Trek has invented,
	patented and qualified for sole claim on whole aspects of our history,
	literature, culture, theology and language, and that anybody who 
	touches on these areas is just doing Trek stuff.

	<p>
	As far as I'm concerned, the Trek-soul-katra thing treated the soul as
	little more than a misplaced pair of sunglasses.  Here we tried to get
	into the issues *behind* the soul...where does it come from, where 
	does it go, does it survive the death of the body, or does it go on
	...to give some mystery and beauty to the notion.  To have it 
	dismissed as just another riff on katra is offensive and insulting 
	and narrow.  And all of those issues just seemed to flit by without
	comment.

	<p>
	I don't mean to get angry, but this is one I'm very proud of, and to
	see it sideswiped and mischaracterized and straw-man'd to death in 
	this fashion is just something that I had to respond to.

<p>
   <li> Re: your statement that the headwear of the S.H. is "stolen" from
	the Ferengi...may I be so bold as to respond to your rather loud note
	with some volume of my own?  To wit: watch something other than Star
	Trek, and maybe spend a little time learning stuff about your own
	world.  The headware is based upon the kind used in various african 
	and aboriginal tribes.  Trek didn't invent it; we have photos of its
	use through history, as well as sketches going back further.  As it 
	happens, the costume designer has never seen "DS9," doesn't watch TNG,
	has no idea what a Ferengi is.  Neither do I intend to not do
	something, based in real history, just because some other show has 
	done drawn on that same background.

	<p>
	You clearly think that if something appeared in ST, then ST must have
	invented it, and that if it appears anywhere else, it must've been
	influenced by ST.  Wrong on both counts.  I would suggest that you 
	have been watching too much ST, and not nearly enough of the Discovery
	Channel.

<p>
   <li> Re: the medical tools...we brought in a medical science consultant, 
	who helped us design our instruments.  His sense was that we're moving
	more and more toward light as a system of treatment, non-invasive 
	procedures, that sort of thing.  No, there aren't anything like those
	devices in today's operating rooms...but this is 250 years from now. 
	In any event, it *is* based on the latest info we're getting on new
	science from our medical advisor.

<p>
   <li> I would not describe n'grath as a "Mafia boss," since that's a very
	specific term.  Nor is it really any kind of organization.  He's a 
	fixer, somebody you go to when you need something...a bodyguard, 
	forged identicards, what-have-you.

<p>
   <li> Garibaldi is quite aware of n'grath...and knowing that if he just
	vanished, somebody'd take his place in five minutes, prefers the 
	trouble he knows to the trouble he'd have to track down.

</ul>

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Originally compiled by Matthew Ryan <i>mattryan@pobox.com</i>